Smart meter con ?

[woodieallen]

Forty years or so ago, I was part owner of a shop in Paddington that sold mainly transformers, along with some other electronic surplus. There was one particular surplus transformer that customers kept asking for, and one of them let slip that it could be used in some way to either retard or reverse the electricity meters of the day. I've no idea if it worked or was just a myth, but we were subsequently a bit reluctant to sell that particular transformer without enquiring, politely, about its intended use.
I also once worked with a guy who reckoned that he slowed down his meter by storing a giant pile of pennies on top of it. Once again, I have no idea if this worked either.

Was that the one in Praed Street,John?

 

[woodieallen]

Any other ways of slowing down meters? (Asking for a friend.)

Well if you have an old style Economy 7 meter you can squeeze up into the connector that is fed from the time switch a thin earthed wire which will fool the Economy 7 meter into thinking it is night all the time.

Or so I am told.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The immediate objection to smart meters are IMHO largely irrational and deny users the ability to access different tariffs for EVs, solar installations, variable rates etc.

If folk want to believe that denial of supply through remote cut-off is imminent, or that signal radiation fries your brain they are at liberty to do so.

There is a longer term issue related to pursuit of "net zero", stressed through migration of transport to EV and domestic to electric from gas. Increasing reliance on, and variability in green energy means gaps will arise due to high demand and low supply. There are many options - eg:

• interconnect to take power from France, Belgium etc
• back up conventional generation - gas etc

All these are feasible but costly. The alternative is to reduce demand. This typically has a much lower cost but should be accurately targeted:

• major power users - contingency plans or compensated for switch off. Some do already.
• rolling power cuts (issues with essential users - eg: hospitals). Arbitrary.
• targeted power cuts using remote switch. Hence smart meters.
• variable charging, penalising consumption when demand/supply under stress. Sensible.
• use EV batteries to feed power back to the grid. Fundamentally sound

Meter reading costs money - costs are absorbed in charges made to all users. Currently over 60% of premises have smart meters. As this grows, so will pressure for those rejecting a smart meter to pay the full cost of meter reading. Expect fixed charges to all those refusing an upgrade.

 

[MikeJhn]

That's exactly so.

This thread has generated more heat than light.

Th original post in this thread stated:

"Your electricity meter is out of date and requires urgent replacement. We are required to do so under governmental regulation of the Electricity Act 1989". The lifespan of your meter is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). This is to ensure your energy is always recorded accurately so you only pay for what you use".
There's a whole raft of legislation which covers gas and electricity meter accuracy:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gas-and-electricity-meter-regulations

So no - it's not a 'wheeze' or a 'con trick' - the energy supplier is obligated to replace time-expired meters.

But to answer the question 'are smart meters compulsory - do you have to have a smart meter by law?'

No, smart meters aren't compulsory. You'll be offered a smart meter by your energy supplier before the end of the smart meter rollout, but it’s up to you whether you accept one, but what you can't do, if your meter has reached it's 'best before date', is refuse to have it replaced. If need be, a warrant can be obtained to enable that to happen, but whether you get a smart meter is completely up to you.

Nothing to see here - move along.

As to the smart meter rollout, the initiative for that is from the government, which requires energy suppliers to offer smart meters to all homes and small businesses across Great Britain by the end of 2025. As much as anything, the rationale is to enable customers to take advantage of variable tariffs. Off-peak electricity, for example, for overnight charging of EVs, or not using washing machines and dishwashers at peak times.

On the assertion that 'smart meters can disconnect you', why would the supplier want to if you are not in arrears with payments?

Technically, the supplier could do that remotely, just as they could visit the premises and disconnect the gas or electricity supply to conventional meters, but only under very strict circumstances, no matter what type of meter you have. It's facile to suggest or infer that energy companies would do this remotely on a smart meter at the flick of a switch. Strict regulations protect you against your energy supplier disconnecting your gas or electricity. This protection is as strong with smart meters as it is with traditional meters. There is no difference between the regulation of energy supply for smart and traditional meters.

https://www.smartenergygb.org/about-smart-meters/smart-facts/can-a-smart-meter-cut-off-power

In any event, cutting off either the gas or electricity supply by energy companies means they will lose revenue. When it is done, it's as a last resort when all other methods of collecting arrears have been exhausted, and in some circumstances, with vulnerable customers they can turn if off at all.

Advice to energy uses from the National Debtline:

Quote:

Disconnection:

You should be able to prevent disconnection if you contact your supplier and arrange to repay your debt at an affordable rate, either by instalments, Fuel Direct, or through a prepayment meter. You must be asked if you want a prepayment meter before your supply is disconnected, if it is safe to install one. See the earlier sections Make an arrangement to pay your debt and Prepayment meters.

Gas and electricity companies cannot cut off your supply unless they have first offered you a range of payment methods to help you pay. They must only disconnect your supply as a last resort.

Contact your local council and the Citizens Advice consumer helpline if your supplier is threatening to disconnect your supply. Your local council may be able to help you to avoid disconnection or to restore your energy supply through their local welfare assistance scheme.

If you have children, consider contacting your local social services department for help with your energy payments. Tell your supplier that you have contacted social services as they will usually delay cutting you off if social services are looking into your case. This could give you time to make an arrangement to pay. The Children Act 1989  gives social services the power to make payments in certain circumstances to families with children in need.

Your suppler must not disconnect you during the winter months if you are a domestic customer and you:

• have reached State Pension age and live alone; or
• have reached State Pension age and live only with other people who have reached State Pension age or are under 18 years old. And:

Your supplier must take all reasonable steps to avoid disconnecting you during the period 1 October to 31 March if your household includes somebody that:

• has reached state pension age;
• is disabled; or
• is chronically sick.

End quote.

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-information/guides/gas-and-electricity-arrears-ew/

With electricity, some chronically sick people have medical conditions which require the use life saving equipment at home, such as for dialysis or oxygen for COPD. Does anyone really believe than an electricity supplier would shut off a smart meter, not knowing it it's safe to do so? Really??? I don't think so.

The supplier has rights of entry, bestowed by the Gas Act 1986 schedule 2B and the Electricity Act 1989 Schedule 6 – called the Gas and Electricity Codes. The right of entry can be exercised either by consent, in an emergency, or by a warrant under the Rights of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954.

It's instructive to have a glimpse at the 'Magistrates Utility Warrant Checklist' to see the rigmarole involved in issuing warrants:

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/119560/default/

Not arguing - just saying.

Is there an emoji for too long to read.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

TL;DR

 

[woodieallen]

@Yorkie Guy. No-one is disputing that that is what is supposed to happen. And mistakes never happen either.

And let’s all hope their cybersecurity is up to date

 

[woodieallen]

. Expect fixed charges to all those refusing an upgrade.

What incurred costs? Never seen a meter reader here in over seven years. At our last place where we were for twenty-five years we saw one twice.

 

[Norman Boyes]

Not always.

I don't think anyone has mentioned emfs and possible negative consequences.

I know a lot of people are unaware/unconcerned, including my own daughter who keeps herself, her husband and two very young daughters in a 24 hour sea of 2.4 ghz and 5 ghz wifi as well as a mobile phone booster.

Highly recommend a tin foil hat in those circumstances.

 

[John Brown]

Was that the one in Praed Street,John?

Yes. Samson's Electronics, although you might be thinking of Ralfe Electronics next door, who sold second hand test equipment. Much more interesting stuff.

 

[Spectric]

Initially they were used for complicated commercial and industrial tariffs that were difficult to meter with conventional types.

That was because some industrial manufacturing uses large motors or many motors and the meter needed to charge for total energy supplied and not just the energy that was consumed doing useful work, ie both reactive and real.

As for the impact of EMC on humans, a domestic supply is not an issue due to the lower power involved, maybe if it was at a much higher frequency it might. The issues start with high voltage pylons carrying 132Kv but it is the 400Kv lines that are of more concern and many studies have been done but they seem to affect the youngest more. It is best to just avoid any strong magnetic field so living next door to a large substation is best avoided and remember the strongest magnetic fields will be at 90° to the current carrying conductors as per Flemmings right hand rule.

 

[Mel769]

My twopence worth: The energy companies would like to have smart meters in every home; and apparently they can do this at "no cost to the customer". So that's millions of smart meters and even more millions of hours installing them; but it wont cost the customers anything ! Haha that dont add up does it

 

[Spectric]

Has anyone thought about the claims made by suppliers that all there energy is renewable or comes from solar etc etc ? I have heard people say that they are being really green because they are only using electricity from wind farms and the first question to ask is " That means your lights go out when there is no wind " or " How does that electricity get to your house because you are connected to the national grid which means you cannot make that claim "

 

[Yorkieguy]

Is there an emoji for too long to read.

Or maybe there should be one for threads which are too long a read? No - neither are needed because posts aren't 'force fed' they're self-selected, so can be ignored, read, read and responded to, or just filed under 'burn before reading'.

I guess maybe I should have put a warning header on my post:

'Warning' reading this might induce drowsiness - do not operate machinery'.

I admit that I'm rather better at verbosity than brevity.

As the Bard put it:

"He draweth out the thread of his verbosity finer than the staple of his argument".
(Shakespeare, “Love's Labour's Lost” Act 5, Scene 1 (1598).

I think that if there was a word count on this thread, my contribution is just two posts out of 132, so I'd be well down the list.

Ho hum... the thread has got legs, and on it will trot - nothing will change.

David. (Duty Windbag - Fri 23/08/24)

 

[paulrbarnard]

My twopence worth: The energy companies would like to have smart meters in every home; and apparently they can do this at "no cost to the customer". So that's millions of smart meters and even more millions of hours installing them; but it wont cost the customers anything ! Haha that dont add up does it

It saves them money, staff and helps with load prediction so yes it doesn’t cost the customer anything. Smart meters save money for the supplier. Of course don’t expect them to pass savings on to the consumer.

 

[Jake]

Looks like you have suitable headgear not to worry about cellular radiation.

An improvement on the usual for sure.

 

[selectortone]

Has anyone thought about the claims made by suppliers that all there energy is renewable or comes from solar etc etc ? I have heard people say that they are being really green because they are only using electricity from wind farms and the first question to ask is " That means your lights go out when there is no wind " or " How does that electricity get to your house because you are connected to the national grid which means you cannot make that claim "

Somebody needs to drag you, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century.

 

[woodieallen]

Yes. Samson's Electronics, although you might be thinking of Ralfe Electronics next door, who sold second hand test equipment. Much more interesting stuff.

I remember them both. And all the surplus stuff on the pavements up Tottenham Court Road

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I recall the electricity meters that had a disk that span to register the usage. At one point, as a student in London in the 1970s, I shared a flat rental with six or more other degenerates (er upstanding members of society), and all a bit The Young Ones some five or more years before the TV version of The Young Ones. To get electric into the flat we had to put 5p (or was it 50p?) into the slot ... I can't recall. As good honest citizens we reckoned we needed to feed that meter at least once or perhaps twice a week otherwise the authorities would get us for something rather undefined but, er naughty.

Basically, after feeding in a coin to the slot, one of us (never me, of course) would take a needle and push it through a tiny almost invisible hole in the side of the meter until the point contacted the big spinny thing which seemed to magically stop the spinny device rotating and to magically register little or no usage of electricity, meaning we always managed to somehow keep warm and toasty in frosty winter using, for example, two or more bars of a three bar fire twenty four hours a day, if required.

Now that was a smart meter, ha, ha. Of course, I could be full of sheet. Slainte.

 

[John Brown]

I remember them both. And all the surplus stuff on the pavements up Tottenham Court Road

Lisle Street in Soho was the magical place full of Aladdin's caves of electronic components when I was a kid. My dad would sometimes take me there.

 

[MikeJhn]

Proops in Tottenham Court Road was a mecca of Army surplus of all things electrical if I remember correctly, it was about 1969 or thereabouts whilst I was working for Ove Arup's in Percy Street.