Signals From The Bunker

[Aragorn]

Hi Gill
The insulation and cladding is expensive but really worth it!
Hope you enjoy your new toys. I have the router inlay kit, and often "sign" a piece by inlaying a heart shape somewhere unobtrusive.

 

[Woodythepecker]

Gill i am really happy for you. The workshop looks great and i am sure you will fill it with lots of goodies.

It really amazed me how small your cubby holes were, how did you ever work in there?

Good luck in your new shop.

Regards

Woody

 

[Anonymous]

gill if i where you i would give toolstation a try they are a lot cheaper than screwfix imho the address is www.toolstation.com

Cheers,
Derek.

 

[tim]

Gill,

Workshop looks great. For insulation I'd recommend a company called Seconds and Co in Presteigne. They basically sell on (at great discount) slightly damaged sheets of Kingspan insulation. Most of the sheets have so little damage that you could hardly tell that they are not perfect.

Did my workshop with it - saved a fortune and its really good stuff - makes such a difference.

http://www.secondsandco.co.uk/

Cheers

Tim

 

[Gill]

Wow! I'm getting some really good support and advice here . Thanks guys. I'll be following up all those links.

Gill

 

[StevieB]

Gill,

what type of insulation were you thinking of? I used rockwool loft insulation from wickes for mine and it was fairly cheap, just bulky to transport. I also have some polystyrene sheet 2" thick I put in the roof since it was left over from my conservatory floor. Again it was not that expensive and its easy to handle and cut.

I would also echo the comment that screwfix are cheaper than B&Q for electrics, except for lighting. Got three 4' strip lights for under a tenner each from B&Q, couldn't match that price anywhere online.

Great looking workshop,

Steve.

 

[tim]

screwfix are cheaper than B&Q for electrics, except for lighting

Not always true and worth checking first. Because B&Q and Screwfix are the same company they tend to swap stock and pricing around quite a lot I've found without any obviously transparent rationale.

Cheers

Tim

 

[UKTony]

Gill,

Workshop looks great. For insulation I'd recommend a company called Seconds and Co in Presteigne. They basically sell on (at great discount) slightly damaged sheets of Kingspan insulation. Most of the sheets have so little damage that you could hardly tell that they are not perfect.

Did my workshop with it - saved a fortune and its really good stuff - makes such a difference.

http://www.secondsandco.co.uk/

Cheers

Tim

Gill, Workshop looks great

Tim, This link has just saved me a fortune, many thanks

Tony

 

[tim]

Tony

Maybe even better news for you:

When i was looking for the link last night for Gill, I found this one by accident:

http://www.seconds.co.uk

Probably pretty close to you I imagine - certainly much closer than Powys! That said I just checked the link and it says that boards are no longer available because of Regs changes. This note was not there late last night so I imagine they do have stuff available and if its not for a builiding that requires insulation anyway as part of regs eg workshops then there is no logical reason why you can't use seconds. Remember, I used the key word - logical!

Cheers

Tim

 

[Gill]

Seconds and Co have been in touch about their Kingspan type insulation material. They sell all thicknesses from 25mm to 100mm in 1.2x2.4 sheets. Prices range from £8.64 to £23.04 depending on thickness and the message says 'all plus VAT', so I presume VAT isn't included.

Wickes loft roll insulation at £18.95 (£12.63 with the 'Buy 2 Get 3rd Free' offer) would cover more area (10.63 square metres as opposed to 2.88 square meteres) and seems to be the cheaper alternative. I believe that B&Q offer an even better price, about £10 per roll.

The question is, would cheaper be better in this case?

What do you guys think?

Gill (who is up to her eyeballs in Sikkens Cetol timber preservative right now :roll

 

[Les Mahon]

Gill,

I was in the same quandry doing mine, and the advice I got from the gys in the Builders providers was that the insulation value of the Rockwoll rols and the kingspan panels was pretty similar however the sound insulation properties of rockwool were well supirior to that of kingspan.

I have no idea if this is acurate or not, just pasing along what i was told - for what it's worth, i did mine with rockwool at the weekend IIRC it was pusing 200 Euro for the 12 rols of rockwool required, not cheap by any means, but it should mean the neighbours won't get annoyed!

Les

 

[tim]

Gill

I wont buy rolls of insulation because I find them messy, they absorb water and aren't self supporting.

The thickness of Kingspan I would recommend is 50mm foil faced - anymore is probably overkill. Any less is probably not worth it.

My personal preferences aside - what you should really be comparing is the U numbers ie the insulation quality of the material. The lower the number the better the insulation.

I have also found that in general with building materials that cheaper is rarely better.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Les Mahon]

As a follow up to what tim said, I found that the cheap stuff from the DIY sheds is particulary messy to work with, the rockwool stuff is less messy, neither is pleasant to work with, but with a dust mask and washing up gloves gloves it's not too bad. When I did the attic, I got some of those disposable boiler suits from the pharma site I was working on at the time, perfect for the job, and bin them after!

 

[Anonymous]

Word on some of the building regs sites (local government and the like) is that you have to significantly increase the thickness of rockwool-style insulation to meet new regs for U-rating, whereas the PU/PIR boards (like Kingspan) will meet the regs as is. Screwfix do a 30mm version that claims .35U, which is pretty good (although I suspect the claim is based around all the other stuff around the insulation - type/thickness of plasterboard, membranes, wall structure etc). In a shed, where you're limited in the size of the frame-work, then the thinner PU/PIR boards give better insulation for thickness, and are probably better to consider.

(I'll be getting a bunch of the screwfix boards to insulate between studwork in the garage, in the very very near future)

 

[Gill]

So, despite the additional expense, it seems that it would be a false economy to use anything other than cavity insulation boards. I think that's the way I'll probably be going. The Screwfix boards look like particularly good value. Thanks guys.

Gill

 

[Jake]

Careful that you are comparing like with like, though Gill. Those Screwfix boards are pretty small. Each pack is only two full sheets.

Jake

 

[trevtheturner]

FWIW Kingspan insulation is highly regarded in the building trade. The company cannot produce enough of the stuff, is expanding and sends out dozens of artics. full each night, going nationwide and internationally. As Tim says, the 'seconds' usually have only very superficial damage, and not enough to affect its performance.

Never used it (yet) and no affiliation. Just a bit of local knowledge - the factory is about 8 miles from me.

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[Anonymous]

Careful that you are comparing like with like, though Gill. Those Screwfix boards are pretty small. Each pack is only two full sheets.
Jake

:shock: 30 mm boards, 1200 * 450 mm, 18 in a pack! 3 packs is enough to do my whole garage!

Yes, the kingspan stuff looks good - spent ages browsing their site yesterday. Trouble is, I can't find anywhere that sells the 'timber frame' type of board. Travis Perkins, Buttles and other builders merchants seem to concentrate on the cavity wall boards, and the combined insulation/plasterboard sheets (very expensive). Kingspan do a couple of ranges designed to go between the studwork of a timber frame, but can't find a retailer.

Gill, you should measure the size of the frame-work in your new workshop - that'll give you the limits of how thick your insulation can be - the thicker the better, of course, but the frame's probably only 2x2s?

 

[Gill]

Hi ES

That was my line of reasoning too. I wasn't going to publish the price guide that Seconds and Co sent me, but since the conversation has turned to calculating value for money, here it is:

• 
  1.2x2.4 sheets.
  25mm £8.64
  35mm £10.08
  40mm £11.52
  50mm £14.31
  60mm £16.50
  70/80mm £17.28
  80/90mm £18.72
  90/100mm £23.04
  Del £20.00 and del within 5 working days. All plus vat.

On that basis, Screwfix look very competitive but I'm going to have to do some measuring to confirm the size of the frame-work.

(Gill toddles off to find a tape measure...)

Okay, the gap between the supports is 21.5" (55 cm) and they are 2.2" (6.5 cm) deep. I'll do the maths later .

Gill

 

[Jake]

Trouble is, I can't find anywhere that sells the 'timber frame' type of board. Travis Perkins, Buttles and other builders merchants seem to concentrate on the cavity wall boards

The difference between the two types being what?

30 mm boards, 1200 * 450 mm, 18 in a pack! 3 packs is enough to do my whole garage!

I was looking at the 45mm. OK, for the 30mm it is not quite 3.5 boards. Seconds (as an illustration because we have the prices) don't do a 30mm. So let's try 35. Screwfix = 16*1.2*.45 = 8.64 sq m for £63.57. You are after three packs, that gives 25.92 m2 for £190.21. 25.92m2 is 9 full boards at £10.08 from Seconds, plus 20 for delivery, plus VAT. Total is £130.