Sharpening

[thetyreman]

It's simple if you have old 01 metal then use old methods or new, which ever suites but if you have modern PMV11 or Crypto-warp 120 moon steel then use modern methods designed for them as the old stones find them too hard to work quickly.

I prefer O1 steel generally, it's always easy to sharpen, I don't mind sharpening more often.

 

[D_W]

I prefer O1 steel generally, it's always easy to sharpen, I don't mind sharpening more often.

I won't bombard you with edge testing bits and bobs, but there is a whole bunch of other reasons O1 steel is nice to use. It's nicest around the hardness that Iles makes their chisels - not sure if they spec irons the same.

But they have to do with its ability to be strong without being overly tough, which translates to them sharpening easily, dropping the burr in sharpening without a fistfight, and not holding on to deflection or forming burrs in use.

 

[Jameshow]

I sharpen with an old facing brick and lidl own brand washing up liquid. Gets a nice shine.

I use a concrete block and old engine oil...!

 

[Jacob]

I use a concrete block and old engine oil...!

Ho Ho.
I bet you sharpen with £500 worth of kit, spend hours at it, keep trying new gadgets, materials magic honing fluids, keep looking for the secret angle, use feeler gauges, the latest honing jig with all the accessories, diamond plates, 25 grades of microfinishing film, lapping film, watch videos, buy books, spend hours flattening water stones.........yawn
- but still struggling!
PS come to think it could really be a very long list of stuff which nobody ever felt the need of until fairly recently
Why did sharpening get so difficult, sometime in the 80s I guess? Was no prob for the previous several thousand years, including beginners and amateurs. In fact we were all beginners - including the professionals.

 

[D_W]

Ho Ho.
I bet you sharpen with £500 worth of kit, spend hours at it, keep trying new gadgets, materials magic honing fluids, keep looking for the secret angle, use feeler gauges, the latest honing jig with all the accessories, diamond plates, 25 grades of microfinishing film, lapping film, watch videos, buy books, spend hours flattening water stones.........yawn
- but still no bloody good at it!
PS come to think it could really be a very long list. Why did sharpening get so difficult, sometime in the 80s I guess? Was no prob for the previous several thousand years, including beginners and amateurs. In fact we were all beginners - including the professionals.

when did people lose the ability to do it well? In 1875, at least, the convention seems to have been keeping stones flat for fine work.

the loss of cabinetmaking with hand tools pretty much killed it, leaving it to people who use almost entirely power tools telling everyone they know everything about hand tools.

 

[Jameshow]

Ho Ho.
I bet you sharpen with £500 worth of kit, spend hours at it, keep trying new gadgets, materials magic honing fluids, keep looking for the secret angle, use feeler gauges, the latest honing jig with all the accessories, diamond plates, 25 grades of microfinishing film, lapping film, watch videos, buy books, spend hours flattening water stones.........yawn
- but still struggling!
PS come to think it could really be a very long list.
Why did sharpening get so difficult, sometime in the 80s I guess? Was no prob for the previous several thousand years, including beginners and amateurs. In fact we were all beginners - including the professionals.

Nope but I must confess to a set of diamond plates.... Father Jacob forgive me...!

 

[MikeO]

Well, push this thread along ,in a direction it might not wan't to go - Does anyone else remember the use of 'Neats Foot Oil' for oilstones? The only time I ever came across it was in my school woodwork room, eons ago.

ive used it on my boots

 

[Jacob]

Salaman's the man.

 

[Jacob]

ive used it on my boots

Good for machining aluminium apparently Neatsfoot oil - Wikipedia
I've got a tin but can't remember why I bought it. I'll have a go with it for sharpening.

 

[Adam W.]

Any new sharpening developments yet ?

 

[Jacob]

Any new sharpening developments yet ?

Working on it. Getting there slowly - back to the garden of sharpening innocence!

 

[Jacob]

That's not correct Jacob, you can successfully camber a blade with a honing guide without buying any additional rollers, I do it and David Charlesworth demonstrates this in his articles and videos.

Have you got a link?
I found one where he's cambering by first reshaping waterstones with an expensive "Odate Crowning Plate" (or several of them at different radii), which I'd never heard of. Is that what people do?
Easier and cheaper freehand of course, and you don't need to shape a stone, though mine is a bit hollow and will produce a slight camber anyway, if you let it!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Why did sharpening get so difficult, sometime in the 80s I guess?

We were shown old honing guides in the first year at school ........... 1965.

 

[Jacob]

We were shown old honing guides in the first year at school ........... 1965.

They did exist even back then (and a lot earlier) but hardly anybody used them.
No need basically.
We weren't shown them at school in my 1955 first year, nor in my C&G course in 1982 but they were becoming more common - and sharpening becoming more difficult!
I bought Stanley (early and late models) and an Eclipse. Still got them in a drawer - untouched for 20 years or more.
The essential detail, jig or freehand, is to bring up a burr across the whole width, however tiny.
If not you will be struggling. I sometimes wonder if this is the detail which escapes some beginners and sends them off in the modern sharpening direction.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

We were shown old honing guides in the first year at school ........... 1965.

I served a four year carpenter apprenticeship in the mid-70’s and the Record honing guide was a required tool to have, along with a Carborundum stone. other sharpening tools included a 42x sawset and saw files. Funny that our instructors never showed us how to use these tools. During that time, I used a powered belt sander with a worn out belt to sharpen edge tools. Had a rounded bevel, and a bit of non-jig honing on a fine stone gave an acceptable edge.

 

[mark w]

Have you got a link?
I found one where he's cambering by first reshaping waterstones with an expensive "Odate Crowning Plate" (or several of them at different radii), which I'd never heard of. Is that what people do?
Easier and cheaper freehand of course, and you don't need to shape a stone, though mine is a bit hollow and will produce a slight camber anyway, if you let it!

Hi Jacob, I don't have a link but his sharpening video demonstrates it and it's in at least one of his books, all available to purchase from his website.

 

[MikeK]

Here is the sharpening video from 2015 where David describes the Odate dressing plate for achieving camber on the plane irons:



Here is another video where David demonstrates the Tormek SE-77 jig for setting camber in the plane irons:



However, when I attended his courses in 2019 and 2020, the Odate plate was not used and I never knew it existed until now. Likewise, the SE-77 was not used to establish a camber. David demonstrated how to consistently, accurately, and quickly set the camber using flat water stones and a LN honing jig. He used a DMT diamond plate to flatten the water stones after every use.

We did use the SE-77 jig on the Tormek with one of the diamond wheels for establishing the primary 25-degree hollow bevel on all of the plane irons and chisels. The adjustment of the SE-77 was great for fine tuning the blade or chisel alignment.

This kit or method is certainly not for everyone, but is one solution to the end result of sharp tools. I don't have the luxury of an apprentice program where I can spend a year learning how to freehand a chisel to Sir's expectation. Of all the resources available to me, I have more money than time, so David's method is what I chose, and I am very happy with the results.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I ain’t gonna get in the middle of “jig” “no jig” argument, but there is one very clear advantage to using a jig. There are many youngsters here, but as one that will be 70 this September, using a jig is much easier on arthritic fingers (In spite of being out of the trade for 30 years), than freehand. Most of the time, I still free hand.

 

[Jacob]

..... I don't have the luxury of an apprentice program where I can spend a year learning how to freehand a chisel .....

More like 20 minutes to get the idea and a few hours to get competent! No luxury involved and very little expense or extra kit.
I don't know how the idea ever came about that it's difficult - it never was in the past.

 

[Jacob]

I ain’t gonna get in the middle of “jig” “no jig” argument, but there is one very clear advantage to using a jig. There are many youngsters here, but as one that will be 70 this September, using a jig is much easier on arthritic fingers (In spite of being out of the trade for 30 years), than freehand. Most of the time, I still free hand.

I'll be 78 in December and have arthritis, more in one hand than the other. Had hip replacement in Feb.
I've always found that holding a jig is very much less comfortable than holding a chisel handle or a plane blade.
The wooden handles (scrap plus saw kerf) knocked up for little blades are much handier than a jig.
One big weakness of jigs is that they don't have handles. A bit like trying to work a plane without handles - possible but not ideal!