Sharpening

[Jacob]

........

If you are comfortable with freehand, then please continue, but please don't try to force it down the throats of others.

It works both ways!
Modern sharpening is very heavily over promoted.

 

[johna.clements]

I sharpen with an old facing brick and lidl own brand washing up liquid. Gets a nice shine.

 

[Jacob]

I sharpen with an old facing brick and lidl own brand washing up liquid. Gets a nice shine.

Possible no doubt, it takes all sorts, but I'm sure you'd find it easier with an 8x2 oil stone and a tin of 3in1!

 

[MikeK]

It works both ways!
Modern sharpening is very heavily promoted.

When asked about the best way to sharpen a chisel or plane iron, I start with "This is how I do it...", and then suggest several methods. You should try this opening line next time.

I don't know anyone who has the time to devote to an apprentice program to learn and refine freehand sharpening. I certainly don't, nor do I want to just grab a chisel and figure it out. A one-hour block of instruction is all I needed to consistently sharpen my tools to meet my requirements. Modern sharpening methods and systems work for beginners, like me, and are still evolving.

I have a friend in Virginia who only shaves with a straight razor. He will belittle anyone who doesn't with "you don't know what you're missing" as he walks around some days with a plaster on his chin, cheek, or throat. I am confident that I have lost far less blood that he has in our nearly identical years of grooming, and maybe have spent less on razors, yet he is comfortable holding on to the old ways.

 

[johna.clements]

Possible no doubt, it takes all sorts, but I'm sure you'd find it easier with an 8x2 oil stone and a tin of 3in1!

I have used cooking oil but then I smelt like I worked in the chippy.

 

[Spectric]

I asked David why he used the honing jigs instead of freehand sharpening. He told me it was for the same reason he had a P/T, table saw, router table, and bandsaw in his shop. Some aspects of woodworking have progressed with technology and just because a process worked great for centuries is no reason to hang onto them when there is a better way.

That is a good and fair point, brings us back down to earth. Why try and sharpen a chisel like someone would a century ago when you can get more consistent results with far less skill using a jig or guide, it comes down to making life easier so we can use the tools to produce something rather than spend time sharpening our tools.

Why has someone not come up with chisels that have disposable ends, maybe you can give them a hone to keep the edge but at some point just replace it and off you go with a new chisel.

 

[Jacob]

That is a good and fair point, brings us back down to earth. Why try and sharpen a chisel like someone would a century ago

You could ask - why use a chisel/plane/knife/saw which was designed a century ago? Answer - because they worked perfectly well a century ago and still do. Ditto the sharpening. Or 10 centuries ago for that matter.

when you can get more consistent results with far less skill using a jig or guide, it comes down to making life easier so we can use the tools to produce something rather than spend time sharpening our tools.

There wouldn't be an issue except for the often repeated comments about modern sharpening being boring, slow, expensive and needing a lot of kit - the opposite of freehand.

Why has someone not come up with chisels that have disposable ends, maybe you can give them a hone to keep the edge but at some point just replace it and off you go with a new chisel.

Well they did try it with plane blades but it turned out better to sharpen them instead. Mainly the size of blade - you'd need great boxes of them I imagine, or send them off to be sharpened, not like disposable razor blades at all!
There were sharpenable safety razors at one point. Much like the ordinary safety razor except you could thread in a strop like a belt and pull it to and fro, but in the end cheaper to use disposable.

 

[sploo]

I asked David why he used the honing jigs instead of freehand sharpening. He told me it was for the same reason he had a P/T, table saw, router table, and bandsaw in his shop. Some aspects of woodworking have progressed with technology and just because a process worked great for centuries is no reason to hang onto them when there is a better way.

I think this is an interesting argument/position.

Undoubtedly it's quicker to throw large quantities of material through a P/T, table saw etc than it is to plane it (or saw it) by hand. Arguably it also requires less skill; in the sense that it's hard work to get a board really nice and flat and even thickness with a hand plane. I enjoy using a hand plane, but the machines are definitely coming out when I've got lots of boards to process.

For sharpening cutting tools such as (flat/square ended) chisels and hand plane blades though I do wonder about the time aspect; it's probably just as fast to freehand sharpen vs the time to put a blade in a jig. Pushing a blade or chisel into a grinder wheel or linisher (e.g. ProEdge) would, granted, be really fast.

No right or wrong way... I just thought it was interesting as I've never really considered the time aspect of sharpening freehand being an issue (vs "newer" methods).

 

[D_W]

Be careful, lest you let facts get in the way of a humorous story.

I had the pleasure of spending four weeks with the late David Charlesworth and learned how to quickly, accurately, and consistently sharpen my tools. This included easily establishing a camber on my plane irons with the LN honing jig. In those four weeks, I never saw David free hand sharpen a chisel or plane iron. He always used the Tormek to establish the 25-degree primary bevel and then switched to the LN honing jig and water stones for the other bevels. This is how I learned, and I am comfortable with it.

I learned - first attempt, from david's video. I think I hassled him about why he didn't have a what's next as I grew tired of how slow the sharpening was and he flatly said "I teach methods that beginners will have success for".

I think there's an important point in this - I can do as well freehand now, but I've sharpened thousands of times. If I couldn't get the same results freehand, I would still use a jig.

I've never seen anyone sharpen the full bevel of a tool and get close to david's results, and if anyone wanted to prove me wrong in a cycle of actual work, they'd find out otherwise if I microscoped their blades. Less accurate sharpening means more often sharpening and more work using tools.

Incidentally, what David taught is almost the same thing as Holzappfel recommends, they just don't mention a guide.

I puzzled for a couple of years about the level of sharpness everyone told me I was missing by not spending time with a pro, but followed David's video exactly and it turned out the method does exactly what he said - it finishes the edge. The other benefit of it is following the final angles he uses, defects in edges occur far less. Having early success was invaluable. I only switched to freehand to cut time, but who in their right mind would recommend to someone who doesn't sharpen all the time to switch to a worse method for them.

 

[D_W]

Why has someone not come up with chisels that have disposable ends, maybe you can give them a hone to keep the edge but at some point just replace it and off you go with a new chisel.

You could probably find these with little effort-but when I first started woodworking in about 2005 or 2006, there were chisels with replaceable HSS bits on the end. I don't know anyone who got them, but there was discussion around them.

 

[MikeK]

No right or wrong way... I just thought it was interesting as I've never really considered the time aspect of sharpening freehand being an issue (vs "newer" methods).

This is the point I was trying to make, but some just can't get past their own bias. I really don't care if the best way for one is to take the chisel to a mostly flat rock by the creek, wedge it between their toes, and dance a jig. If it accomplishes the task, then that is the right way for that person.

 

[Spectric]

the best way for one is to take the chisel to a mostly flat rock by the creek, wedge it between their toes, and dance a jig.

Has anyone tried it? maybe we are missing a trick!

 

[TRITON]

Tomorrows sharpening topic - The Skew.

 

[Jacob]

Tomorrows sharpening topic - The Skew.

Ooh can't wait! Whose go is it?

 

[TRITON]

Ooh can't wait! Whose go is it?

Hopefully not mine, I bought a Record no2506 side rebate plane the other day(A score at £35) so im in need of honing the edges of the skew irons. I've no jig and they're too small to try it freehand.

 

[Jacob]

Hopefully not mine, I bought a Record no2506 side rebate plane the other day(A score at £35) so im in need of honing the edges of the skew irons. I've no jig and they're too small to try it freehand.

Take something like a 6 to 10" long piece of 2x1" for a handle, cut a saw kerf in the end and insert blade. Apply to oil stone.
Doesn't have to be a tight fit if you can't match the thickness - holding it down firmly on the stone will keep it in place. This is an essential trick for all shapes and sizes of small blade - most often a spokeshave or block plane.
You can of course put a screw or two through, for a tight fit
Same trick is handy for a big plane blade but no kerf just bolt it on through hole in a 2x1" length. This makes it possible to grind a full bevel on a coarse stone quite quickly, because you can put a lot of effort into it, more so if it's long enough for both hands.
Might have to bevel the end, to clear the stone.

 

[Droogs]

It's simple if you have old 01 metal then use old methods or new, which ever suites but if you have modern PMV11 or Crypto-warp 120 moon steel then use modern methods designed for them as the old stones find them too hard to work quickly.

 

[Marcusthehat]

What are the cambered rollers for then?

Yer hair!

 

[mikej460]

Take something like a 6 to 10" long piece of 2x1" for a handle, cut a saw kerf in the end and insert blade. Apply to oil stone.
Doesn't have to be a tight fit if you can't match the thickness - holding it down firmly on the stone will keep it in place. This is an essential trick for all shapes and sizes of small blade - most often a spokeshave or block plane.
You can of course put a screw or two through, for a tight fit
Same trick is handy for a big plane blade but no kerf just bolt it on through hole in a 2x1" length. This makes it possible to grind a full bevel on a coarse stone quite quickly, because you can put a lot of effort into it, more so if it's long enough for both hands.
Might have to bevel the end, to clear the stone.

yes and LN give you a similar gadget with their router planes

 

[Jacob]

It's simple if you have old 01 metal then use old methods or new, which ever suites but if you have modern PMV11 or Crypto-warp 120 moon steel then use modern methods designed for them as the old stones find them too hard to work quickly.

I've got Hock blade in a 4 which says A2 Cryo whatever that means. It does take noticeably longer but not a game changer.
I see sharpening as a little break from the job and a few minutes either way is fine.
Supposed to keep it's edge longer anyway but I can't say I've noticed particularly