Sharpening

[D_W]

Here is the sharpening video from 2015 where David describes the Odate dressing plate for achieving camber on the plane irons:



Here is another video where David demonstrates the Tormek SE-77 jig for setting camber in the plane irons:



However, when I attended his courses in 2019 and 2020, the Odate plate was not used and I never knew it existed until now. Likewise, the SE-77 was not used to establish a camber. David demonstrated how to consistently, accurately, and quickly set the camber using flat water stones and a LN honing jig. He used a DMT diamond plate to flatten the water stones after every use.

We did use the SE-77 jig on the Tormek with one of the diamond wheels for establishing the primary 25-degree hollow bevel on all of the plane irons and chisels. The adjustment of the SE-77 was great for fine tuning the blade or chisel alignment.

This kit or method is certainly not for everyone, but is one solution to the end result of sharp tools. I don't have the luxury of an apprentice program where I can spend a year learning how to freehand a chisel to Sir's expectation. Of all the resources available to me, I have more money than time, so David's method is what I chose, and I am very happy with the results.

I never use a jig. I wouldn't recommend someone who gets better results with a jig than they do freehand to sharpen freehand, though, either - that doesn't seem very sensible.

Teaching a beginner who isn't an apprentice (where you can command they keep doing something until they get it and do it your way) probably tends toward using something like an eclipse guide to get edge geometry right and to bias finishing the tip of the blade properly, which david's three bevel method does.

I think the crowning plates or whatever those were called, attached to odate, seemed like a good idea but they were expensive and what if you want a different camber? You end up with an expensive plate or three with a need if you want to use another one to work the flat back of something to buy yet another.

David's method is a jig based version of turning the iron a little bit in sharpening (even a smoother) to introduce cambering.

Interestingly, the holtzappfel book also mentions doing this, but anyone who freehands for a while and wants to finish plane without much scraping or sanding to follow (or none in ideal situations) will figure that out on their own.

Tormeks and jigs are kind of the same - they are both slower ways to do something, but they are easier to get right and if one's doing little enough that the speed isn't a concern, then....if it isn't a concern, it isn't a problem.

Freehanding after you get the feel is kind of like riding a bike, or learning - you have to go through a period of doing it often - in a short period, to get the feel for what works well, but not everyone will ever do that. An experienced sharpener will usually not vary more than a degree or so in a final bevel when doing the method holtzapffel describes - they won't because higher or lower will feel wrong. Eons ago, someone asked me what final angle I use freehand and I didn't know - whatever it takes to stop nicking from occurring and be appreciably steeper than the grind. I got out half a dozen plane irons and all of them were almost exactly 33 degrees. Sometimes it's not important to know that, but it's interesting that it's fairly close to what David recommends with a jig. And Holtzappfel says the same 25 grind, +10 for a small secondary bevel and edge finish established with a "turkish oilstone". Nobody on here will be buying that, but it's the same level of finish of any good finishing stone.

 

[throbscottle]

When I was a kid my Grandad, who was a gardener his entire life, taught me to sharpen knives on his oilstone. I've never seen his undulating-slide technique anywhere else, but bloody ****, it worked! If it was very blunt (read: sharp by any other standard) he'd rub it on a bit of emery paper first. He then gave me his oilstone, which was in a lovely wooden box, but it was a long time before I had anything more than my growing collection of pocket knives to sharpen on it.

In school woodwork class I'd learnt about the shape of a chisel blade, although I don't think I was taught specific angles,, but we weren't given the opportunity to actually try it (possibly due to a known limit to combining boys with sharp tools). So when I eventually got some chisels of my own (and at some point I also acquired a plane, but didn't have the space to use it properly), I had quite a bit of learning to do.

Took me a while to work out what to actually do, didn't take so long to work out how slow going it was if the chisel was blunt! So I got the "little and often" message early on. Jigs simply weren't a thing I was aware of until I got an Eclipse drill sharpening jig, which proved to be pretty terrible - I'm so glad I learnt to sharpen them properly! Plane blades proved a bit more challenging and I didn't get much chance to practice.

Sadly my grandad's oilstone went the way of all my first tools, and it was only when I bought similarly shaped and sized carborundum stones (that the oil just goes straight through) that I appreciated what I'd given up (family heritage notwithstanding). But at least I'm now the proud owner of a grinder. That I made out of a hairdryer...

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

When I was a kid my Grandad, who was a gardener his entire life, taught me to sharpen knives on his oilstone. I've never seen his undulating-slide technique anywhere else, but bloody ****, it worked! If it was very blunt (read: sharp by any other standard) he'd rub it on a bit of emery paper first. He then gave me his oilstone, which was in a lovely wooden box, but it was a long time before I had anything more than my growing collection of pocket knives to sharpen on it.

In school woodwork class I'd learnt about the shape of a chisel blade, although I don't think I was taught specific angles,, but we weren't given the opportunity to actually try it (possibly due to a known limit to combining boys with sharp tools). So when I eventually got some chisels of my own (and at some point I also acquired a plane, but didn't have the space to use it properly), I had quite a bit of learning to do.

Took me a while to work out what to actually do, didn't take so long to work out how slow going it was if the chisel was blunt! So I got the "little and often" message early on. Jigs simply weren't a thing I was aware of until I got an Eclipse drill sharpening jig, which proved to be pretty terrible - I'm so glad I learnt to sharpen them properly! Plane blades proved a bit more challenging and I didn't get much chance to practice.

Sadly my grandad's oilstone went the way of all my first tools, and it was only when I bought similarly shaped and sized carborundum stones (that the oil just goes straight through) that I appreciated what I'd given up (family heritage notwithstanding). But at least I'm now the proud owner of a grinder. That I made out of a hairdryer...

I remember viewing a video by “Tools for Working Wood”, about a dozen years or more ago, by Maurice Frazer (IIRC), using oilstones, showing his freehand methods, that were a combination of side to side and back & forth. Used nearly all of the stone’s surface. I was to ingrained with my own freehand style to change, though.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I get a 25 degree main bevel using a jig on my belt sander. I am wary of fire risk (sparks and sawdust are not happy bedfellows but this is an occasional need and monitored.

I use an eclipse jig for plane and chisels to get a consistent angle and reasonably sharp edge. Were I an apprentice working with wood all day, every day then freehand skills would develop quickly.

As a weekend woodworking warrior, sharpening tools to a consistent angle means any problems can be linked to user skill deficiencies rather than inadequate sharpening.

I use Ultex diamond stones - mostly a combined 400/1000 grit. They may not last a lifetime, just several years of occasional use - but they are 25% of the cost of DMT. 6mm of steel should stay flat.

Bought some leather now, stuck to some 18mm MDF and chrome polish to hone.

All very basic - total cost of all the kit ~£50-75. I did once buy a proper waterstone - within weeks it had developed a definite rut down the middle - now useless without flattening.

I commend this simple approach to no one - it suits me, and I am under no time pressure. I have to accept that I may ignorant of what other methods could be used to improve sharpness!!

 

[raffo]

When I was a kid my Grandad, who was a gardener his entire life, taught me to sharpen knives on his oilstone. I've never seen his undulating-slide technique anywhere else, but bloody ****, it worked!

Can you describe this technique a little more?

 

[spanner48]

I'm with Jacob on this. I was taught, back in 1958, how to sharpen anything freehand - including twist, Jennings, Irwin and Forstner drill bits, as well as every sort of plane, chisel, gouge, knife or saw.

But what's missing here is that getting the primary and secondary bevels right, though important, was much less critical than making sure the face side was REALLY flat. And for that, hollowed or rounded stones are a PITA. So we hade a large steel 'Flatting Plate' at school, and a periodic chore was grinding the sharpening stones flat again using carborundum grit and water. Took about an hour for each stone.

So for me, diamond stones are a godsend: last far longer; stay flat until they're completely worn out.

Nowadays I help out - almost always sharpening and toolsetting - at about 20 Repair Cafés around where I live. The people who bring tools in are always surprised that I spend three or four times as long on the face side [or on the 'KIssing Faces' of anything from scissors to hedge clippers] as I do on the sharpening bevel. I always show them how essential it is to raise a burr along the whole cutting edge, before fining the sharpening grind and finally knocking off the wire edge by stropping across the palm of a hand.

And when a diamond stone IS worn out [and I've worn out a few . . ] they're excellent for 'stropping off' a wire edge. My left hand is a bit crippled, so I can't keep it completely flat, and tend to get 'Stropping Slashes' across the palm if I'm not careful.

 

[throbscottle]

Can you describe this technique a little more?

With the blade held so it's being pushed along the stone, it obviously hangs off at either end, pull the blade back and forth so the whole blade gets coverage, at the same time pushing it along the length of the stone. I don't know if he did it this way just because of blade length to stone width ratio, or because it actually does produce a demon-sharp blade, with no burr to worry about.

 

[xy mosian]

How fortunate, we are, not to be able to read when learning to walk. I seem to think we just get on with it.
geoff

 

[Jacob]

How fortunate, we are, not to be able to read when learning to walk. I seem to think we just get on with it.
geoff

No prob, there'd be plenty of gadget salesmen standing by, along with booksellers and magazine writers!
If you actually had to learn sharpening from scratch in an emergency e.g. sharpen an axe or chisel to repair a boat you'd been cast away on, you'd find a bit of stone and have it sorted in half an hour or so.

 

[Jacob]

With the blade held so it's being pushed along the stone, it obviously hangs off at either end, pull the blade back and forth so the whole blade gets coverage, at the same time pushing it along the length of the stone. I don't know if he did it this way just because of blade length to stone length ratio, or because it actually does produce a demon-sharp blade, with no burr to worry about.

It's not really a "technique" though, it's just an obvious way of touching up the whole blade.
I tend to draw a knife across diagonally, starting with heel and ending with toe. Makes no difference and it doesn't do to over think these things!

throbscottle's grandad's oilstone or something probably very similar pops up on ebay all the time. £5 or so.

spanner48's stone flattening perhaps unavoidable in a school or multi user environment but can't say I've ever felt the need myself. Jigs need a flat surface - which of course is the first problem you are likely to hit unless you also buy a new stone (and another stone to flatten it with etc etc!)

Angles get mentioned a lot - there's only one important one - hone the edge at 30º (more or less!)

All the old books advise grinding at 25º and honing at 30º which is excellent advice for the beginner, except it has been mis-interpreted as a dead flat bevel at either angle, which is difficult freehand - so forget flat.
Also mis-interpreted as meaning you must have two bevels, but one at 30º is all you need for smaller chisels or thin plane blades, and bigger ones too, or the rounded bevel which varies from 30º at the edge, to something less. The 25º grind is just to get material off faster and has no bearing on the cutting edge.

It's not obvious at first but all normal planes, chisels and gouges, with or without cambers, are really easy to sharpen freehand, on the same stones, except you may need slip stones for inside gouges and similar, or holders for small blades - made from a few scraps and a saw kerf.

 

[xy mosian]

No prob, there'd be plenty of gadget salesmen standing by, along with booksellers and magazine writers!
If you actually had to learn sharpening from scratch in an emergency e.g. sharpen an axe or chisel to repair a boat you'd been cast away on, you'd find a bit of stone and have it sorted in half an hour or so.

I couldn't agree more jacob.

 

[Jacob]

Googling "Odate crowning plate" - it seems to have originated in 2005 but become rapidly defunct, presumably with few takers. Not surprising really as it would involve a sizeable outlay in slow and inefficient sharpening aids with very limited use.
It does bring up all sorts of odds and ends such as this unbelievable site Plane Perfect which also looks very dated.
It suggests to me that the days of crazy sharpening are perhaps behind us and things are getting back to normal?

 

[hlvd]

I served a four year carpenter apprenticeship in the mid-70’s and the Record honing guide was a required tool to have, along with a Carborundum stone. other sharpening tools included a 42x sawset and saw files. Funny that our instructors never showed us how to use these tools. During that time, I used a powered belt sander with a worn out belt to sharpen edge tools. Had a rounded bevel, and a bit of non-jig honing on a fine stone gave an acceptable edge.

My instructor in Tech forbid us from using a honing guide, it was hand sharpen only or otherwise you’d never be taken seriously as a joiner.
About ten years later I started using a honing guide and still do as it avoids that dreaded rounded bevel.

 

[Jacob]

My instructor in Tech forbid us from using a honing guide, it was hand sharpen only or otherwise you’d never be taken seriously as a joiner.
About ten years later I started using a honing guide and still do as it avoids that dreaded rounded bevel.

No wonder you have to use a jig! Who taught you to dread rounded bevels and why?

 

[Ttrees]

Googling "Odate crowning plate" - it seems to have originated in 2005 but become rapidly defunct, presumably with few takers. Not surprising really as it would involve a sizeable outlay in a slow and inefficient sharpening aids with very limited use.
It does bring up this all sorts of odds and ends such as this unbelievable site Plane Perfect which also looks very dated.
It suggests to me that the days of crazy sharpening are perhaps behind us and things are getting back to normal?

I have a plate intentionally made the other way round, likely a little flatter profile though.

 

[raffo]

With the blade held so it's being pushed along the stone, it obviously hangs off at either end, pull the blade back and forth so the whole blade gets coverage, at the same time pushing it along the length of the stone. I don't know if he did it this way just because of blade length to stone width ratio, or because it actually does produce a demon-sharp blade, with no burr to worry about.

I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, the blade is held diagonal to the length of the stone? as you move it back and forth, it overhangs when it reaches the ends? Isn't that the way a bench stone is typically used? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

In The Village Carpenter by Walter Rose they were advised to use a stone narrower than blade they were honing so the stone dished end to end but stayed flat side to side.

 

[throbscottle]

It's not really a "technique" though, it's just an obvious way of touching up the whole blade.

Got to call it something. "Technique" was the word that came to mind. "Way" is good too. "Method" also works but you're more like to find it in a recipe book.

If I had a pound for every forum argument I've seen over semantics, I'd be heavier!

 

[Jacob]

Plane Perfect does have it's funny moments!

3000 years to reach this peak of perfection! (which nobody was interested in )
What can one say? Good try chaps, better luck next time? Don't call us we'll call you?

 

[throbscottle]

I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, the blade is held diagonal to the length of the stone? as you move it back and forth, it overhangs when it reaches the ends? Isn't that the way a bench stone is typically used? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

No, perpendicular. Think of a typical folding pocket knife with a blade 3 inches long, being sharpened on an oilstone 2 1/2 inches wide. So that's half an inch overhang. So pushing the blade down the stone uses the full length of the stone, and sliding the blade back and forth along it's length, ie, across the stone, as you go, sharpens the full length of the blade (and incidentally keeps it burr-free). Hence I chose to call it *undulating*.

I did attempt to use the side to side motion when I started to sharpen edge tools for the first few times, but it proved too difficult for me.