Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Maybe trad sharpening (easy, fast, cheap, effective) is a trade secret?
It hardly gets mentioned in any of the old books, beyond grind at 25º hone at 30º.
Sharpening
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It hardly gets mentioned in any of the old books, beyond grind at 25º hone at 30º.
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
Well Droogs, it's just a somewhat embellished and tongue-in-cheek story about learning how to sharpen bench chisels and plane irons. You may have seen it, I don't know, but I'd say it's irrelevant to timber technology, the focus of the book.
Still, it's a thought that if included, but who knows where, it might divert a reader from the dry techy stuff for a wee while and perhaps enhance their reading experience. The truth is, of course, that I don't think the editor or publisher would allow me gratuitously slip it in somewhere, ha, ha. Slainte.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Just had a deja vu moment; "Odate plate".
Suddenly remembered my first double sided oil stone, 50+ years old, still kicking around in a cupboard.
It's hollowed and dished both sides.
It forms a camber automatically, whether you want it to or not
It's an Odate oil stone!
Phew that's saved me a few quid!
Suddenly remembered my first double sided oil stone, 50+ years old, still kicking around in a cupboard.
It's hollowed and dished both sides.
It forms a camber automatically, whether you want it to or not
It's an Odate oil stone!
Phew that's saved me a few quid!
This must be a word of your own making, as there is no universally identical method that was "traditional". If you have a site work method, you should call it that.
Holtzapffel provides a very good method, but they also describe it as 25/35 - and they do so very clearly. Along with mentioning that for better work, it's important that both the iron and the stones are carefully kept flat.
Plenty of other older literature shows a single flat bevel.
It's convenient to endorse something that wasn't universally done the same was as having been as a strawman.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Holtzapffel is just one man with an opinion, not the be all and end all of sharpening metal tools.
Doing as little as you can to follow that? He's one - others have different instructions and show other edge profiles. the fact that they don't match should be a clue.
I have received unused or very little used planes from the 1800s and they didn't match holtzapffel, but rather had very long primary bevels and very steep secondary bevels to limit the amount of metal being honed. It's not as if everything was done one way.
Holtzapffel's other narratives - how planes work and how they should be set up are ideal. He's not just another guy who teaches routers on tuesdays, sharpening to new users wednesdays and then uses a pocket hole jig on site the other three days.
Jameshow
Established Member
I get the impression these new sharpening techniques have exploded on the scene since YouTube came about. Everyman and his dog has a new technique to do an age old job.
It's the same with cycling you need a "Bike fit" before you can ride a bike!! On the back of which you get the old timers who tell it as it is and get the backs up of the technique
- YouTube influencers!!
It's the same with cycling you need a "Bike fit" before you can ride a bike!! On the back of which you get the old timers who tell it as it is and get the backs up of the technique
- YouTube influencers!!
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Holtzapffel's advice is just the standard advice for total beginners as found in all the old books i.e. grind at 25 and hone at 30 to 35 ish. It's pretty much the universally identical method worldwide, probably since the stone age.
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Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Great isn't it, another golden age of skill sharing if you like,
which probably was last seen on such a scale over a hundred years ago.
Way better than some old dusty book with vague instructions IMO.
Tom
It's interesting enough just to read the cards that come along with various tools. Stanley had at least one that said to grind at 25 degrees and hone the edge. I've done some screwing around and never found anything that holds up well in wood at 25 degrees, but the damaged edge is thinner and may not matter in coarse work.
the trouble for beginners is that everyone wants to pitch a method, but nobody wants to tell beginners what the result should be.
same thing goes with sharpening systems - which i find to be an irk - is to suggest that some set of expensive stones will lead to a finer edge than something else. the stones make almost no difference - accurate grinding and then finishing the edge is all there is, and lapidary grits are cheaper, finer (if desirable) and more closely graded than any stone I've found.
method and stones together is like some way to corral beginners, though - to make them think they're getting fundamentally different results that can only be had with a specific method. The results are something they never look at, though.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
More like the golden age of making things up and pretending to be a sharpening guru!
The first essential is to persuade people that things are difficult, which of course it often is for a beginner, for the first 20 minutes or so.
Once they are hooked you can tell them any old baloney and sell them gadgets / kit/books/magazines/courses - but not to forget to continue to make it difficult or you could lose credibility and sales.
grind at 25 , hone at 30º - the beginners universally identical method more or less. What else do you need to know? Bringing up a burr right across is about it.
Very pleased with my Odate oil stone (see above) - there could be a market for them!
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
As if you read that I mentioned him and why but missed why. I have the three volume set from around 1840.
A later update showed up on google books and is searchable. When I googled "flat sharpening stone cabinetmaking" because I figured jacob's constant droning about stones being flat being a new thing, I figured i'd find some older literature that advised a method of honing to keep the stone flat.
The 1875 edition showed up in excerpt, I read it and was stunned how perfect he description of various plane options were. I never read the 2000 pages or whatever of the original set because I hadn't bought them for that. Still haven't pulled the older version out to see if instruction is the same.
the entire book is a treatise and well detailed, it's not just planecraft or some kind of pocket reference. i didn't go back and look at nicholson, but I think I've seen it before mentioning that it's important to address the tip of the iron separately from the rest.
There are only two things really important for beginners. Spend $20 on a hand scope and confirm you're sharpening the edge and not leaving damage. Then consider the geometry - 30 degrees will hold up for softwoods, but it won't hold up damage free in hardwoods. The rest is results based - it doesn't matter what the method is and for anyone sharpening enough for it to matter and not just lifting splinters on doorway corners, the desire for doing it faster will follow.
And it'll end up like holtzapffel.
if you can't follow that? No, I didn't just stumble on holtzapffel. Yes, I did just stumble on that section of the work.
Also missing from instructions was sharpening a low bevel angle on a bevel up plane and a large shooting board for square things. Not surprising.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Who are these people who are bringing up methods and selling expensive sharpening gear - especially those referenced on here?
Paul Sellers?
I've seen very little of it on here at all, but the strawman you create is seen walking around often. if you stopped blowing air into him, I think he'd collapse.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
I can see what you're saying for the absolute beginners,More like the golden age of making things up and pretending to be a sharpening guru!
The first essential is to persuade people that things are difficult.
Once they are hooked you can tell them any old baloney and sell them gadgets / kit/books/magazines/courses - but not to forget to continue to make it difficult or you could lose credibility and sales.
grind at 25 , hone at 30º - the universally identical method more or less. What else do you need to know? Bringing up a burr right across is about it.
Very pleased with my Odate oil stone (see above) - there could be a market for them! to see who's cabable
but I'm talking about skill sharing, which is something intermediate compared.
An intermediate or hobbyist can easily spot those who are skilled,
and get it for free.
No baloney or carp involved
This is a golden age, and we're getting to see things with our own eyes,
No pretending anymore, or meeting half way in a sorta vague mist of English.
Real evidence in real time.
Searching for #woodworking and whomever may pop up is for others entertainment
and not someone looking for skills.
What could be better?
I guess they work it out that it's supposed to result in things being "sharper" otherwise why would they even bother?
The result is a given finish at an edge, and the geometry at the edge and behind it.
Very easy concepts.
A beginner can mistake a short lived burr for sharpness.
The other thing they can see with a small hand held scope is that nothing expensive does any better than all of the cheaper options.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Yes you've got it, well done.
Don't forget the burr right across the whole edge. Planes often wear more in the middle and the burr may come up there last. If you stop too soon you are only part way there.
PS forgot to add - there is just one magic trick, well it seems like it, which is a quick squiggle of candle wax on a plane sole. No special candles required and an average sort of candle will last for many years!
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