Severance negotiations

[stuckinthemud]

My employer has taken a dim view of me attending a job interview and has scheduled an “informal chat with a third party HR Company to discuss the structure of the company going forward “ in other words the possibility of a severance deal. Whilst he appears to suggest this is just to explore our situation and I won’t have to take up any offer, I am not so sure that will actually be the case. What do I need to know beforehand- the meeting is Monday, he only told me last night so no time to arrange a representative.

 

[bourbon]

Did you go to the interview in your own time? If so. It's non of his business. How long have you worked there? If over two years, you have a lot of rights. The 'third party' HR company will know that. In the interview, take a tape recorder with you. But let the other party know you will be recording.

 

[stuckinthemud]

Company policy is unpaid leave for interviews. Leave was booked and the reason declared. He seems to view it as disloyal to the company and an indication of reaching a parting of the ways. I have 4 years 7 months service.

 

[stuckinthemud]

I very much want to remain in this sector, will accepting a severance package impact my employability?

 

[NickDReed]

https://landaulaw.co.uk/interviews/#:~:text=Can you be disciplined because,a reason to dismiss you.
Can you be disciplined because you are applying for a new job?
You are entitled to look for a new position and you cannot generally be disciplined for doing so. It is certainly not a reason to dismiss you. If your job performance suffers because your attentions are diverted and you no longer have interest in the job, that is a different matter and you could be disciplined on capability grounds. Similarly, you may subsequently find yourself more isolated by your employer if you are working on specific matters and where loyalty to the business is essential.

Where you do need to be careful is where you are using work computers in your search for a new role. This personal use of your employer’s IT systems could amount to a breach of company policy, and some employers will be more lenient than others in this regard. Even if you are conducting your search during lunchtimes and after work hours, the fact that you are using work computers and telephones in your job search puts you at risk.

 

[sploo]

Unless you've bunked off during work hours without taking leave (which granted would be a problem, though the reason is irrelevant) an employer who decides to take you to HR for attending an interview with another company should be avoided like the plague. I don't know if it's covered in any sort of employment law, but discriminating against or punishing someone for attending an interview certainly feels to me like very dodgy ground for an employer.

 

[NickDReed]

If they make your employment there untenable I believe you would have a case for constructive dismissal. But I'd look into that further yourself.

 

[Logger]

I was in a similar position to you although 20 years ago. My boss took the view that i was disloyal but did not try to offer any form of severance. I worked in the recruitment industry at the time and had been responsible at a previous role for keeping up to date with recruitment law. I took my boss to a tribunal and won easily.

I also had no issue getting a job after this. I was honest with prospective employers and they had no issue with it, in fact they seemed to respect me for it. As i said, this was the recruitment industry i was in.

I hope all goes well for you.

Nick

 

[Spectric]

What is the problem, you are not happy working for that company otherwise why go to a job interview !

to discuss the structure of the company going forward “ in other words the possibility of a severance deal.

This sounds like you were more part of the company than just an employee.

He seems to view it as disloyal to the company and an indication of reaching a parting of the ways. I have 4 years 7 months service.

Any business is only going to be as good as the people it employs and I can see why the boss might feel you are being disloyal, you are part of that workforce and maybe before having an interview for another job it might have been better had you at least had a chat with the boss to air any issues and say that if we cannot resolve the issues that I might have to look for alternative employment and that way you are being open and honest about the situation.

What is the line of work ?

 

[stuckinthemud]

Perfectly happy, don’t want to leave , would like to stay with the OP not get bogged down with the why’s. What do I need to know to prepare for the meeting?

 

[Lons]

Perfectly happy, don’t want to leave , would like to stay with the OP not get bogged down with the why’s. What do I need to know to prepare for the meeting?

Just be well prepared with your answers to all potential questions you think might be asked, they'll certainly question your loyalty and want to know why you attended interview. Be honest if that doesn't jeopardise your case, say you naturally and understandably wanted to keep abreast of the industry including conditions, salary scales and prospects. If the interview was for a promotion vacancy then again the argument stands. Perhaps you can even suggest that it's healthy feedback to the company to find out what the opposition is doing.
If you want to carry on then fight your corner, if you're happy to accept a severance then play hard ball but don't admit you're looking to leave. They will be well aware of a potential constructive dismissal claim.

I attended a number of interviews while managing for several companies as you can gleen a lot of useful information.

Sounds like a crap boss tbh. My son works for a small company and is very happy, he was called into his manager's office a couple of years ago and she said "I would expect you've seen the vacancy advert for a local competitor, have you applied?" My son said "no I hadn't but obviously I will read it now however I'm not looking to lave as I'm happy here". Boss says "great to hear, you're valued". A week later he got a £3k rise out of the blue and has had a promotion recently as well.

Good luck

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I don't know what job you do nor the company or business for which you work.

There may be some obvious reasons why they may want to understand your intentions, assuming your current and possibly prospective company compete within the same local market.

They may be concerned about losing clients as you leave, ensuring you understand the duty of confidentiality you would have towards them as previous employers, ask you to go on gardening leave for your contractual notice period, or simply clarify what may happen if you were to leave.

A positive thought - your employer may even want to make you a better offer, pay rise or promotion to keep you rather than lose your services. Possibly unlikely???

Whatever the reasons, you have employment rights - if abused future employers may as concerned about your failure to exercise them than if you take action.

Key point - if they seek agreement or signature to anything you do not feel entirely comfortable with, your response should be along the lines "I need to think carefully before agreeing" or "I need to take some advice".

 

[jcassidy]

There is no such thing as an 'informal chat' with a 3rd person HR specialist, they cost money!

Your options are;
1. Ask for a postponement, contact a union, and ask for a rep to come with you
2. Go to your meeting and make extensive notes about what is said.

I don't think the Conservatives have had the legislative time to dismantle the working rights imposed by the EU, but the union will know better than I.

Sounds to me either your boss is scared you're leaving and wants to figure out how to keep you, or is lining up a case to get rid of you. if the latter, having a rep or making notes will be cruciform for any future tribunal case.

Best of luck!

 

[steve66]

I once had a meeting with my boss, I went with another member of staff who mediated and was a witness as to what was said, I myself was also asked by another member of staff to witness and mediate for them.

 

[Fergie 307]

Has the issue of severance been specifically mentioned, or an assumption on your part. Could be that your employer wants to better understand what they might be doing wrong to cause you to be looking elsewhere. Have to say if it is an assumption on your part that does suggest you have some doubts about them.

 

[Drifter2406]

All good advice given, but I would suggest that you take a video recorder and as soon as you walk in say to them "As HR are in volved you won't mind me recording this will you"? but start the video outside the door before you walk in.

 

[jcassidy]

All good advice given, but I would suggest that you take a video recorder and as soon as you walk in say to them "As HR are in volved you won't mind me recording this will you"? but start the video outside the door before you walk in.

Nah don't do that, they'll say 'no recording' and then you're off to a bad start.
A rep or take contemporaneous notes!

 

[Drifter2406]

Nah don't do that, they'll say 'no recording' and then you're off to a bad start.
A rep or take contemporaneous notes!

They don't have have a choice, they have not given him enough time for legal representation and they have made it official by including HR.

 

[Blackswanwood]

There is some dodgy “advice” being dispensed in this thread.

You only have a right to be accompanied to a meeting with your employer if it is a grievance or formal disciplinary meeting (Section 10 of the Employee Relations Act if my memory serves me correctly).

An employee does not have the right to record a meeting without the explicit agreement of the employer. My advice would be to not do anything that prejudices your position by being unreasonable.

With the caveat that I don’t know the background I would e-mail the employer saying that I am attending the meeting, am unclear what it’s purpose is but for clarity understand it is not related to a disciplinary matter. The employer then needs to show their hand if it is as you would be entitled to have the option to be accompanied (and a reasonable notice period to arrange this).

If they are going down the route of negotiating that you leave by mutual agreement it will be governed by a compromise agreement. You have to have legal advice for this to be valid. You can negotiate that the employer covers your costs as part of the agreement.

I would suggest trying and go into the meeting with an open mind and being open that you have no desire to leave. Beyond that though just listen and don’t show your hand as to what may or not be acceptable terms for you to leave. Dont’t commit to anything in the meeting other than to consider what is being put to you. If you want to explore options make clear that the discussion is without prejudice. If you feel you are being rushed or harassed into making a decision drop in the phrase constructive dismissal (which is making life intolerable so an employee resigns) and say you need to take advice. Ask if the meeting is being minuted and if so ask if you can have a copy. Take your own notes and summarise what you have heard at the end of the meeting.

Under a compromise agreement the wording of any formal reference is usually agreed. The best way to ensure a fair informal reference is to leave without getting into a p1ssing competition with the employer.

I hope things work out for you - Citizens Advice will be able to help if you need to discuss the matter. The initial discussion with a solicitor is also usually free.

 

[Keith Cocker]

There is some dodgy “advice” being dispensed in this thread.

You only have a right to be accompanied to a meeting with your employer if it is a grievance or formal disciplinary meeting (Section 10 of the Employee Relations Act if my memory serves me correctly).

An employee does not have the right to record a meeting without the explicit agreement of the employer. My advice would be to not do anything that prejudices your position by being unreasonable.

With the caveat that I don’t know the background I would e-mail the employer saying that I am attending the meeting, am unclear what it’s purpose is but for clarity understand it is not related to a disciplinary matter. The employer then needs to show their hand if it is as you would be entitled to have the option to be accompanied (and a reasonable notice period to arrange this).

If they are going down the route of negotiating that you leave by mutual agreement it will be governed by a compromise agreement. You have to have legal advice for this to be valid. You can negotiate that the employer covers your costs as part of the agreement.

I would suggest trying and go into the meeting with an open mind and being open that you have no desire to leave. Beyond that though just listen and don’t show your hand as to what may or not be acceptable terms for you to leave. Dont’t commit to anything in the meeting other than to consider what is being put to you. If you want to explore options make clear that the discussion is without prejudice. If you feel you are being rushed or harassed into making a decision drop in the phrase constructive dismissal (which is making life intolerable so an employee resigns) and say you need to take advice. Ask if the meeting is being minuted and if so ask if you can have a copy. Take your own notes and summarise what you have heard at the end of the meeting.

Under a compromise agreement the wording of any formal reference is usually agreed. The best way to ensure a fair informal reference is to leave without getting into a p1ssing competition with the employer.

I hope things work out for you - Citizens Advice will be able to help if you need to discuss the matter. The initial discussion with a solicitor is also usually free.

Blackswanwood gives the best advice in this thread and I was a former Director of a large multinational professional services and consulting business and handled scores of these issues. You don’t say (and I’m puzzled why) what sort of role you are in as context would be useful. In many cases from an employers perspective knowing someone is looking for another job is enough to want them out of the door. It may well be you have options coming out of the proposed meeting but you best one may now be negotiating the best exit deal you can. If leaving seems the way they are heading you don’t need to agree a package there and then. Take time to get advice and then reconvene at a later date.

But I repeat, ignore some of the nonsense about video cameras etc and pay careful attention to Blackswanswoods advice. Good luck