Rounding off Plane Iron Corners

[Tony Zaffuto]

I can't ever get a 'planed finish - look - a - like' on the belt sander whatever grit I go up to. In fact the higher the worse as I think finer grits impart any small intolerance in the machine to the work.

Then again I've only been planing for 5 months.

or mebe tis my machine.

or my hands or a combination thereof

Compare looks after the finish is on.

 

[baldkev]

just as no one mentions prostatic massage...

Is it good?

 

[aet1]

Is it good?

Any experienced old hands here?
It's been such a long time I can't remember what the question was that we have been answering.

 

[TomB]

Any experienced old hands here?
It's been such a long time I can't remember what the question was that we have been answering.

Sayre's law states: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake."

Sums this thread up quite nicely.

 

[Hornbeam]

Once you strip away a lot of the BS, this article does make me think.
I am generally happy with the set up of my planes and the sharpness I achieve. I am also generally happy with the results. Maybe I have just stumbled on the right set up over the last 40 years
BUT
I had never really questioned cap iron angle and its significance or otherwise
If I take an engineering approach and consider the 2 limit cases then at 0 degrees it has no effect ( ie you dont have a cap iron and at 90 degrees then the plane will clog. In between there will be sweet spot but will that be the same for

• Different timbers which will have different mechanical properties
• different thickness of shaving which will increase the stiffness of of the shaving. For me I seldom take thick shavings as it is generally finish off the planer/thicknesser
• different levels of planing against the grain (or heavily interlocked grain

I would be interested in your comments on this Tom

Ian

 

[raffo]

That's the issue with some of you guys. You may not fiddle with plane as much as some of us, but there are preconceived notions that cause hostile reactions often. At 90 degree cap iron angle, it sounds like a given, I don't know if you've tried it or are just guessing, but in actuality the plane won't clog.

Jump to minute 7 of this video.

 

[Hornbeam]

I stand corrected.

 

[Ttrees]

I had never really questioned cap iron angle and its significance or otherwise
If I take an engineering approach and consider the 2 limit cases then at 0 degrees it has no effect ( ie you dont have a cap iron and at 90 degrees then the plane will clog. In between there will be sweet spot but will that be the same for

• Different timbers which will have different mechanical properties
• different thickness of shaving which will increase the stiffness of of the shaving. For me I seldom take thick shavings as it is generally finish off the planer/thicknesser
• different levels of planing against the grain (or heavily interlocked grain

I would be interested in your comments on this Tom

Ian

Differing timbers that I've found this to be the case with, I've not found any,
but possibly my no.5 1/2 (50 deg honed cap @ as close to under/no greater than 1/32")
might have been too close for some wet ash, some harsh resistance occurring much like what ya get if the cap iron is at, and not under the 1/32" mark, plus a tight mouth.
Those split firewood logs might be no problem now.

That's about the most noticeable timber I've found, out of the teak or mahogany substitutes, beech, pitch pine, and a small amount of other things.
Those two planes I have would cover anything, and produce a pretty straight shaving,
perhaps not so thick and stout as in Brian's video, see my picture of dense iroko, seemingly to me
one can get a heavier shaving from the woodies, not that I've used one.

My smoother will cut in either direction and still get the same kind of shaving, with the interlocked timbers the grain reverses, and on the most densest of those examples makes no difference in effort to smooth, so that's 12 of one, and half dozen t'other.

Now if you want to talk exotics, I've got some unknown timber which is unbelievably heavy/dense/interlocked and wouldn't think anything of honing my cap steeper, as planing that stuff, even more attention payed to making the camber so slight, a PITA,
but then again I was under the impression David reckoned my edge was at fault,
and didn't think I might achieve a better finish from the plane going steeper.. and staying with my normal practice that is.
I think it's worth trying, but not rushed about it, as that timber is too good to use on a whim.

Tom

 

[Pabs]

Is it good?

I think it probably isn't purely based on the assumption of what it involves
but apparently a thing them rich folk are throwing their wads at!

That's the issue with some of you guys. You may not fiddle with plane as much as some of us, but there are preconceived notions that cause hostile reactions often. At 90 degree cap iron angle, it sounds like a given, I don't know if you've tried it or are just guessing, but in actuality the plane won't clog.

Jump to minute 7 of this video.

looks like a little seedling!

 

[Jacob]

That's the issue with some of you guys. You may not fiddle with plane as much as some of us, but there are preconceived notions that cause hostile reactions often. At 90 degree cap iron angle, it sounds like a given, I don't know if you've tried it or are just guessing, but in actuality the plane won't clog.

Only if your 90º is to the sole. It's then 45º to a 45º blade, which is what counts!
Didn't see anything particularly revelatory on the rest of the vid.
PS Oh I missed it! Yes but that was such a tiny 90º facet that shavings could pass. The usual 90º prob is with an unfinished cap iron which has not been undercut at all and presents its full thickness to the emerging shaving. As this is likely to be on a cheapo plane with a thin cap iron it is likely to get shavings wedged under.

 

[Adam W.]

7 pages in and there's no more information that has been presented than the old time rule :

1. Set up your plane correctly and it will work properly.
2. Don't have a gap between the iron and the back iron as it will choke up, which I thought was covered in 1 anyway.

All of this is covered in Ellis, which has been dismissed in favour of the nonesense information offered up by youtubers and inexperienced planing pundits.

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Pabs]

i thought i'd try all this out on a cheap faithful no 6 - i thought it would be fun to try tune up the chip breaker and iron

took a few hours, it really brings home how low tolerances are on cheaper stuff

Had quite a bit of fun tbh learning about this stuff.

I've done a review on the Faithful 6 just to try put it all in practice.

 

[Vaughan Thomas]

Does the increased use of "modern" sharpening techniques using superflat diamond or ceramic stones give blades with straighter cutting edges? Those old oilstones developed a dished centre (unless reflattened on an obsessively regular basis) and produced sharp blades with a forgivingly slightly curved edge. No need to round off corners! And few tramlines.

 

[mwinfrance]

 

[Jacob]

Does the increased use of "modern" sharpening techniques using superflat diamond or ceramic stones give blades with straighter cutting edges? Those old oilstones developed a dished centre (unless reflattened on an obsessively regular basis) and produced sharp blades with a forgivingly slightly curved edge. No need to round off corners! And few tramlines.

Exactly. Never flattened a stone except once as an experiment - annoyingly it lost the tendency to automatically create a camber!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Walter Rose in The Village Carpenter said he preferred a stone narrower than the blade because the stone then stayed flat.

 

[pe2dave]

Does the increased use of "modern" sharpening techniques using superflat diamond or ceramic stones give blades with straighter cutting edges? Those old oilstones developed a dished centre (unless reflattened on an obsessively regular basis) and produced sharp blades with a forgivingly slightly curved edge. No need to round off corners! And few tramlines.

(My understanding) A rounded blade has nothing to do with rounding off the corners? I've one where I've rounded off the full width to 8" arc, for taking big chunks off.
My others I round the corners to 3 or 4mm to stop that 'trace' of the plane across the surface of a wider piece of wood.