Riots - Bring on the army

[nanscombe]

Funny.

It seems only a few weeks ago we were condeming someone for shooting fellow citizens.

This week we are wanting someone to do exactly that.

Strange world.

 

[barkwindjammer]

The 'Arab spring' has arrived in blighty.

 

[Noel]

Why don't we have Water Cannons for these situations, or do we but they are not being used?

The Met have had, may still have, water cannon. They were evaluated and it was decided not to use them. Apart from political considerations there are practical ones too. Superficially attractive they are not all they are cracked up to be. The main problem with them is that at an effective pressure (which can cause injury) they use all their water very, very quickly and then become a liability as a vulnerable vehicle.

The use by other nations appears to be less so nowadays.

Totally inaccurate, current models seem to work well and they are armoured.

As for those that advocate the use of lethal force, really worked well the last time the British government authorised it, didn't it?
And with the authorities record of recent shooting incidents (table leg or rifle? Terrorist or visiting South American?) it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[nanscombe]

But then again emerging from a shop, which closed hours ago, with electrical appliances in your arms is rather incriminating. :shock:

The only other question ... What sort of ammunition to use. :evil:

Oh no, that was another thread.

 

[doctor Bob]

One of my clients lost his shop last night, 35 years of hard work gone up in smoke. Mindless lazy f%*kwits who think smashing up there community is a laugh.

I normally err on the side of caution, but after driving near Enfield today, I can see vigilantes will be on the street looking to protect their communities and who can blame them.

Would you watch someone smash your house or business up and take no action, I certainly would take any necessary action.

Very easy for Jacob to take the high ground, rural derbyshire, wonder what action he would take if someone smashes up his lifetimes work or burnt his house down etc etc.

 

[wyldpuss]

Very easy for Jacob to take the high ground, rural derbyshire, wonder what action he would take if someone smashes up his lifetimes work or burnt his house down etc etc.

Easy! Read his posts, he stand and debate their reason with them! :roll:

Roy.

Digit on a borrowed lap top.

 

[jordec66]

I got summoned off site today (wolverhampton) . The police were patrolling and suggested we leave , they blocked
one end of the road and told us there was a possibility of not getting out! I should have protested and said hang on a minute , don't be too hasty , I need to complete the day , otherwise the dole fund will have a shortfall and they might not get they're money!.

 

[wyldpuss]

Jacob wants reasons, With the number charged now in three figures he might get some.
My list for the most popular reasons is as follows.

My client just went along with crowd m'lud.

We've got nuffin to do.

We woz bored weren't we.

And top of my hit parade...
I was simply making a protest at the injustices that exist in modern society m'lud and the horrendus gap between those who have and the have nots.

Roy. (Digit)

 

[Noel]

Hope it's only the high milers.....LR to the rescue:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14468005

 

[RogerS]

Why don't we have Water Cannons for these situations, or do we but they are not being used?

The Met have had, may still have, water cannon. They were evaluated and it was decided not to use them. Apart from political considerations there are practical ones too. Superficially attractive they are not all they are cracked up to be. The main problem with them is that at an effective pressure (which can cause injury) they use all their water very, very quickly and then become a liability as a vulnerable vehicle.

The use by other nations appears to be less so nowadays.

Totally inaccurate, current models seem to work well and they are armoured.

As for those that advocate the use of lethal force, really worked well the last time the British government authorised it, didn't it?
And with the authorities record of recent shooting incidents (table leg or rifle? Terrorist or visiting South American?) it's a recipe for disaster.

Those examples, Noel, are not valid here. As others have said...walking out of a close shop with a TV in your hand. No question. No debate. Bang! End of.

 

[Dibs-h]

....
.....- but carefully targeted shooting, just the 1 or 2 would have a phenominal affect on the looters\arsonists........tw@ts would solve a lot of problems, immediately and future.

Dibs

Would provoke protest marches and riots everywhere, and quite right too.

Nobody sees to want to consider causes. Not easy, but they are there, and more complicated than a lust for blackberries.

Here's a good line I just spotted: Social security works both ways

A couple of looters\arsonists shot after having been warned and warning shots fired, somehow I don't think you'd get any marches nor riots.

Joe Public would be grateful for a quick end to the matter.

As for Social Security works both ways - sounds like bloody extortion to me = "Pay me handsomely to do sweet FA & live a better life than you & we won't destroy your lives\livelihoods!"

Dibs

 

[mailee]

For years now this country has been getting softer and softer. All the do gooders have been chipping away at society and our governments have taken too much notice of them as it was the politically correct thing to do (Flavour of the month and more votes for their future) Our police have had their hands tied for a long time now too what with all the red tape they have to go through. After the terrorist attacks in London the police did get a pretty free hand in this field but have had a lot of powers taken away in the everyday crimes we seem to have had an increase in over the last few years. Yes people are angry with our government wasting our money along with the bankers but violence is not the way to show our anger, voting is and what our society should be about. Give the police back their powers stop giving money to other countries and wasting it on somebody elses wars and get the money back into our country and spend it on the things that really do matter before we have anarchy on the streets, (Although it could now be too late) :evil: Aorry for the long rant but it really pineapples me off!!

 

[Jacob]

I'm as horrified as anybody and I'd be just as pissed off as anybody else if it was my shop etc.
But there's more to it than thieving and shooting. Most of the looting is after the event it seems with just "ordinary" people following the mobs.
Cameron needs to think a bit more about "the big society"

 

[barkwindjammer]

Well to be fair, to show that "we're all in this together" he's flown back from Tuscany !

 

[Noel]

Those examples, Noel, are not valid here. As others have said...walking out of a close shop with a TV in your hand. No question. No debate. Bang! End of.

That's a shameful statement. So you're quite happy perhaps seeing a 12yr old or a 14 yr old shot dead? Or perhaps a 10 yr old dragged along by his or her elder peers. May as well shoot everyday shop lifters too, burglars breaking into to steal from empty properties. You really think that's a just action for smashing windows and nicking goods? Sure it's theft, criminal damage, arson. May as well shoot the stone throwers too.

 

[RogerS]

Those examples, Noel, are not valid here. As others have said...walking out of a close shop with a TV in your hand. No question. No debate. Bang! End of.

That's a shameful statement. So you're quite happy perhaps seeing a 12yr old or a 14 yr old shot dead? Or perhaps a 10 yr old dragged along by his or her elder peers. May as well shoot everyday shop lifters too, burglars breaking into to steal from empty properties. You really think that's a just action for smashing windows and nicking goods? Sure it's theft, criminal damage, arson. May as well shoot the stone throwers too.

I think a 12 year old might struggle to carry out a heavy plasma screen and so wouldn't be in harm's way. I think that you might be missing the bigger picture. It's not 'just smashing a window etc'. It's mob rule. Anarchy.

 

[Benchwayze]

I'm as horrified as anybody and I'd be just as pineappled off as anybody else if it was my shop etc.
But there's more to it than thieving and shooting. Most of the looting is after the event it seems with just "ordinary" people following the mobs.
Cameron needs to think a bit more about "the big society"

Politics Jacob?

I am pineappled off with politics. So leave it out please. I won't blame any particular party, but the obnoxious, adenoidal Milliband is going to bleat on about this for some time to come. So if you don't mind, I don't need it here.

Perhaps you'd like to read this and think about another point of view besides your own.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talkin ... 21728.html

 

[nanscombe]

That's a shameful statement. So you're quite happy perhaps seeing a 12yr old or a 14 yr old shot dead? Or perhaps a 10 yr old dragged along by his or her elder peers.

IF the penalty for looting was to be shot on sight, which it currently isn't, or even to be beaten up by citizens protecting their neighbourhood then

David Cameron: "If you are old enough to commit these crimes, you are old enough to face the punishment"

 

[Karl]

One of the first posts on John's link

"The signs were there alright, they started when we prevented schools from disciplining pupils and therefore erroded respect that children have for any authority when they were just infants, it was perpetuated when we prevented parents from disciplining their children and reinforced the belief that children can coast through life with few consequences to their actions. It continued when we erroded the value of family and created social support networks that enable people to live comfortable lives without ever having to work, entirely supported on the state with no obligation to take any responsibility for their actions or their life. It gets worse every year as this underclass of undereducated, under diciplined irresponsible individuals continues to have more an more children born into a ghetto culture where underachievement is celebrated, criminality is glorified and parental responsiblities are ignored and abdicated to the state.

Even now some people are queuing up to blame those from outside of these communities for the crimes that are being committed within them, further absolving them of responsibility and giving credence to their vacant and tired claims of victimisation. These are feral children who've been let down by their parents and overindulged by cloying liberalism that confers endless rights with no sense of responsibility. The left seems to be tripping over itself in its desire to flaggelate the law abiding citizen over this, its easy to blame the law abiding as then you don't have to deal with culprits, or admit that perhaps you've been wrong for decades on how to deal with these sort of social problems. If you balme everyone else then its easy to conclude that this is a problem that's too big to fix, instead of taking the pragmatic view of dealing swiflty and harshly with those that are guilty of committing these crimes and protecting the innocent law abiding tax payer from their vile, self destructive behaviour."

Excellent!

 

[studders]

I think shooting is a step too far. What annoys me is that when an unpopular foreign leader visits the UK ALL the stops are brought out to keep any protesters well away from them; hundreds of Police are used, Riot Squads are used, it seems no expense is spared. Protesters are Kettled to be better controlled and bear in mind that in some instances the protesters number in thousands.
So WHY do I see TV footage of the Police just standing around doing bu gger all?