Removing twist from thick boards for coffee table

[Monions2112]

Hi,

Not sure if this is the right section for this post, but here goes.

I am fairly new to woodworking and have the basic workshop set up with mitre saw, various saws, work bench etc.

My first projects have been quite successful, things like drawers and draw fronts have gone very well.

The next project was a suggestion from my wife for a rustic coffee table based on thick scaffold boards and 6x2 joists. This looked easy, so I got the wood from the Oxford Reclaimed wood centre - what could go wrong? The issue is that most of the boards, even though thick are twisted, most rock by almost 1cm when laid flat. This is too much to make the top flat enough to use and look nice - I know I am going for the rustic look, but it still has to look professional.

My first thought was to go back and find straighter ones, but the more I looked into this on this forum I come to the conclusion that this is the nature of the beast - so I need to be able to work around it. I don't have a P/T, and even if I did, I don't believe that would be a quick solution as the boards will need to be straight before they go through the thicknesser.

So my thinking is to get a power sander and spend time getting the boards flat that way - I've looked through various forums and YouTube and this looks like the best solution. As there is quite a lot to remove, I don't fancy using a hand plane, and to be honest I have never go the hang of those, they always jar and pull lumps out of the wood.

Am I on the right track?

 

[MikeG.]

Well, you've given up on the easiest way....the hand-plane. You'll have to do something more complex. Whatever you do will entail removing the surface of the timber, and thus the "rustic" look.

You could fix the piece solidly to your bench, make a sled and parallel rails for your router and remove the high spots until you've got a flat enough surface to use a belt sander on, across grain first, then with it. Flip it over and repeat, but the board will end up looking nearly new as you'll have stripped away up to 10mm of its surface in places.

 

[Jacob]

Jack plane is the only sensible way. Good to practice on scaffold boards - doesn't matter if they end up as firewood!
Main thing is to cut them to length (plus a bit for error) before you start planing.
n.b. you don't detect twist by laying them flat - you do it by looking at them - squint down the length.

 

[custard]

Looking for a power tool solution to a hand tool problem is almost always a mistake. Mastering planing by hand is pretty fundamental to the craft. It's not that hard, and it's very satisfying.

I make quite a few desks and tables from mammoth slabs of exotic hardwoods, far too big to process with my machinery. And if they're to support a keyboard or a laptop without rocking then they need to be flat to better than a quarter of a mill. A couple of vigorous hours with a hand plane turns this,

Into this,

Scaffolding boards are a great place to begin practising.

Good luck!

 

[Monions2112]

Thanks Guys,

That's given me some things to think about. They're actually joist timber rather than scaffold board so don't have that much patina, but look nice and chunky. So the look I'm after is may be chunky rather than rustic. I got the general idea from the Oxford reclaimed wood centre, they have examples of tables they have created from this type of wood and others. They have a good selection on their gallery - http://www.oxfordwoodrecycling.org.uk/gallery/

Therefore, planing them down is less of an issue, my main concern is to have them straight and flat - rather than looking like a 3 year-old has been let lose with a few bits of wood

I did look at the boards before I bought them home, but totally missed they were twisted - no idea how, I always sight down the length of all timber I buy, but obviously not this time. And, they are probably all similar, hence my thoughts that I need to fix it. Plus, I feel this is probably a skill I need to get under my belt for the future, as almost all wood needs getting straight and flat.

Custard, that table looks fantastic, on another thread you gave me some good advice on finishing Mango wood - the drawers I made from that look fantastic with Osmo - thanks for the help.

For a good plane suitable for this task what size and make should I be looking at?

 

[Mike Jordan]

Scaffold boards are made from poor quality white pine which is of no use for any other jobs other than rough carcassing. l am amazed at the current fashion for attempting to work with this material. I know that some people are buying new scaffold boards and making things with them. Any used items will be contaminated with all manner of grit and abrasive material which has been pressed into the surfaces by workers walking on them.
Any suggestion of planing by hand or machine is going to meet with early disappointment. If the grit doesn't wreck the cutters the glassy rock hard knots certainly will. This simply isn't joinery grade timber and never will be! Some timbers are worth the extra effort involved in recycling them but the process always involves extra work and a considerable risk to the tools and machinery you might use.
Unsorted grade pine is not available from the DIY sheds because it costs a few quid more than the rubbish they normally sell. Please go to a proper timber merchant and make a small purchase, saw it, plane it, and cut a joint or two.
You will find the experience wonderfull compared to knocking your knuckles off on worthless firewood. There is real joy in working nice material. I'm still doing it after 60 years, give it a go.
Mike.

 

[custard]

For a good plane suitable for this task what size and make should I be looking at?

I've seen a guy flatten a 14 seater Oak table top within a day with just a block plane for a bet. And I've met plenty of people who couldn't get the job done despite owning every tool in the Lie Nielsen catalogue.

In truth a 5 1/2 Stanley or Record is pretty much all the bench planes you'll ever need, especially if you have a couple of spare irons. Throw in a good wooden jack and you really are prepared for anything you're ever likely to encounter. If you're flush with cash and want something that works superbly straight from the box think Veritas or Lie Nielsen. But there's a practical, affordable sweet spot in the middle where you'll find these,

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... k-plane-v3

https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... plane.html

 

[Monions2112]

Great, thank you for the links - those two planes look very nice, so I will investigate further.

I'd just like to ask - why do you guys suggest hand planes? I know this may sound like heresy, but would a good electric plane not do as good a job (or better)? I'm curious why hand tools are felt to be better than power tools for these types of task?

 

[Rorschach]

An electric plane will remove material very fast and leave quite a good surface finish but they are next to useless on surfaces wider than their bed because they will dig in and leave tramlines. A handplane on the other hand had a flat bed with a protruding blade that can be sharpened with a very slightly camber. This combined with a light cut means that you can create an (almost) flat surface no matter how wide it is.

If you have a lot of material to remove you could certainly start with an electric plane but you will need to finish with some kind of hand plane or a combination of belt sander and random orbit sander to get it flat.

 

[Mark A]

If you already have an electric planer then it *can* be used initially to remove the bulk of material, but otherwise they're not really worth the hassle. One pass too many and the entire board needs re-flattening; one wobble and the edge is gouged.

 

[Jacob]

It's a power 'scrub' plane

 

[deema]

The normal method would be to first tackle the boards with a scrub plane. This can simply be the oldest most horrid no 4 plane you can find with a frog pulled as far back as possible and the plane sharpened with a good curve to it. You plane across the grain. It will get you down something approaching flat very quickly. Then you would get yourself a nice no5 1/2 as Custard has suggested. Traditionally you would use a foreplane or no6, but that’s not really necessary. This is used to smooth off the lumps and get it flat.

 

[Nelsun]

If it's knotty wood, be prepared for a lot of sharpening. Others with more hand plane experience than I can likely offer some advice on how to mitigate the dings they inevitably put in your iron.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi - IME scaffold boards and constructional timber (which may well have been pressure treated with preservative - watch the toxic dust) is often flat (or live or plain?) sawn from fast-grown young pine trees (to minimise waste) meaning that the boards are very often prone to cupping.

e.g. http://summittforestproducts.com/educat ... ngmethods/

When I look at my scaff boards, they're nearly all cupped (because of the way they were sawn) and only a few are twisted (because of irregularities in the way the tree grew) you don't really want them twisted when walking on them of course(!) and there are grading standards for scaff boards which probably factor this in. My point being, take care when flattening that you're not conflating cuppping with winding/twisting.

I find that electric planers are great, but I always end up taking off more material than I mean to - they're voracious machines.

I love my QS 5 1/2 from WH - I plane scraps as therapy, it's such a pleasure to use!

Have fun, cheers, W2S

 

[Tasky]

I don't fancy using a hand plane, and to be honest I have never go the hang of those, they always jar and pull lumps out of the wood.

Hop back onto YouTube and look up Paul Sellers.
He has a plethora of videos, including several on how to set up a hand plane, how to sharpen it properly, how to use it and even how to make a simple oiler that eliminates a lot of jarring, chattering and the like.

It makes for interesting viewing, but you'll soon see that fettling up and using a hand plane is nowhere near as difficult as you think. A few tips and tricks are all you need to get started with decent results.


Besides, Paul Sellers kinda goes hand in hand with Oxford Wood Recycling anyway, as he's right round the corner and highly recommends them!

I'd just like to ask - why do you guys suggest hand planes? I know this may sound like heresy, but would a good electric plane not do as good a job (or better)? I'm curious why hand tools are felt to be better than power tools for these types of task?

Several reasons...

1/. Cost - I'm a newbie (to working wood, anyway) like you and cannot afford several thousand pounds for a decent planer-thicknesser, or even a few hundred for a crappy one. It needs maintenance and costs more money to run, especially if your 'leccy is expensive.

I can get three reasonable condition second-hand Bailey-pattern planes off eBay for about £150, fettle them one evening after work and then set to with some woodworking.

Eventually your blade will go dull and need sharpening. This again costs money, as I believe you'll have to send your power blades off for a professional job.... 2 weeks?
With a hand plane you just take the blade out, sharpen it up on a set of stones, quick strop, drop it back in and off you go.... Takes five minutes if you make a cup of tea as well, maybe 2 minutes if you don't.


2/. Control - Like many others before me, when I first started here I asked about power tools. I was quite succinctly informed that all power did was let you make bad mistakes a lot worse, and a lot faster.... they're not wrong!!


3/. NOISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTttttttttttttttttttt..........................
BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTttttttttttttttttttt..........................
BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTttttttttttttttttttt..........................
BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTttttttttttttttttttt..........................
Need I say more?
I do?
OK then - Dust.... as well as all the noise piddling off your neighbours and annoying the heck out of you, you'll want to wear a dust mask and goggles and ear protection and coverall clothing.... oh, and you'll need even more money for the dust extraction system(s), too.


4/. Nope.....
An acquaintance of mine has his own joinery workshop nearby, with all manner of fancy professional industrial power tools and machines. The finish from his hand planes beats anything the machines can do.
You'll find a number of people harping on and getting quite overexcited by the "silky, smooth" results of a hand plane. They sound almost pervy about it.... but again, try it - You'll find they're not wrong!!

 

[MikeG.]

Scaffold boards are made from poor quality white pine which is of no use for any other jobs...........
Mike.

Nah, no way.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

:lol: I think that you may have visited the Fancy Lad Academy before you produced that little oeuvre...

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/wood ... -make-barf

 

[Bod]

Great, thank you for the links - those two planes look very nice, so I will investigate further.

I'd just like to ask - why do you guys suggest hand planes? I know this may sound like heresy, but would a good electric plane not do as good a job (or better)? I'm curious why hand tools are felt to be better than power tools for these types of task?

When you have swept up after an electric plane, you'll know why hand planes are suggested.
(Don't think the dust bag will work)

Bod

 

[Rorschach]

Good timing on this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7yMb7KV-08

 

[Ttrees]

Just learn to use a plane,
It wouldn't take long to plane that, if you got the hang of planing
you wouldn't think twice about it.
The plane is the fundimental tool for wood preparation and is a joy to use.

By the sounds of you saying you tore lumps out with a hand plane, this was because around the spot you were planing was
high, and the spot you were trying to plane to was low, so you had to advance the blade way too much, and then when you went to
take a full shaving it just hit against the edge of the timber and it seemed pointless.
I suggest you find an old composite fire door, thats a really good start to plane on.
Make the bench to suit this without flexing the composite reference.
You can trust this composite surface and flip your timber over to check your progress
An angle poise lamp is great for shining a light underneath, showing you where the low spot is.
Your aim is for no light, and the piece sitting solid, without propelloring in the middle, or rocking
You can even cheat
I think this might give the quickest results on learning
Coat a section of the bench with crayon (black is best) lay your progress on the crayoned area and rub for 1 second.
Now you know that crayoned area on the timber is high, and the plane will be more than happy to plane off that bit
even with the finest of shavings, so your not having to crank the thickness up to, too much!
Get an old Stanley 5 1/2 with a nice thick sole if you have no planes
Good luck
Tom