Removing twist from thick boards for coffee table

[Jamster21]

What Ttrees said! I wanted all the gear as i thought that was the easy way to success but I don't think it is. A couple of nice planes, a sharpening mechanism of your choice(!) and something to plane on. That and time and some wood to play with and if you're like me, it might just click...

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[Jacob]

...................
You can trust this composite surface and flip your timber over to check your progress
An angle poise lamp is great for shining a light underneath, showing you where the low spot is.
Your aim is for no light, and the piece sitting solid, without propelloring in the middle, or rocking

..........

I don't hold with this fussy "reference surface" process I don't know where it came from. Engineering? Very unorthodox and potentially misleading.
Much easier to check the surface the normal way by just looking at it. Lift it a bit and squint down the length. And/or use winding sticks.
Otherwise you are going to start worrying about how flat your bench is!
NB all planes need a cambered blade. More camber, faster removal. Zero camber and work becomes very difficult, except on the edge of boards

 

[thetyreman]

handplane will remove the twist, 10 pico seconds seconds flat...boom, it's done before you can breathe or think

 

[Monions2112]

Thanks Guys,

OK, you've convinced me - a hand plane is an essential bit of kit. I'm looking at the ones suggested earlier and the Axminster Rider series. Hopefully will pick one up this week and get this project moving.

I also noticed the RagnBoneBrown video, which was very apt as not totally different from what I was doing.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

 

[Ttrees]

You need a flat bench for planing on, it will be far far easier to do and learn on with a flat bench,
and essential if you were planing long thin stock, or laminating without joint lines,
especially if your a scavenger and plan to be laminating often.
You shouldn't need worry about a fire door deflecting much, and will give the fastest planing bench
with minimal tools, and you will find one easily as regulations changing these days...
renovations happening etc...
I wouldn't sink loads of money on a new plane, instead by two Stanleys, because you need
one with some camber, and you need one that has the cap iron set so you will never experience
tearout.
One 5 1/2 will get you by for now, unless you want perfection with the least effort possible.
(meaning learning to set the cap iron, which will involve the second plane)
You need some sharpening gear too, and I suggest a cheap eclipse style honing guide to get
you going, costing about a fiver, mines worn out now, but it did make things easier as I had enough
issues in the mix.
You need a known flat surface to fettle your cap iron/chipbreaker, especially if you are using reclaimed timber with possible cement, as the metal detector doesn't work for concrete #-o
You could use some granite offcuts from a stove hearth, ask a stove place have they a bit of a broken
slab, or you could find a glass shelf with a green tint to it (meaning floatglass, not plate, nor toughened glass as the others are not as flat.
Or you could buy a nice diamond hone, like a 1000 grit or finer...I have a well worn 1800 that I like
Some folks are happy with their cheapish Ultex stones (meaning they're flat) to fettle the back of the iron and the cap iron.
More work needs to be done to the cap iron, on the second plane, if you want tearout free cutting
regardless of which way you plane ...
see David W (Weaver) on youtube and in the hand tools section.

So for a 5 1/2 say around £50, and another for another 50
Those Ultex or similar hone bonded to a surface ground nickeled plate, the finest Ultex one will cost about 20, or wait till sale for about 10 (prob be a long wait)
you could get those DMD cheapie plates for the rough bevel work at about 2 quid each..
400 and 1000 for less than a fiver
A cheap honing guide for a fiver
An angle poise lamp with a long reach would be handy
That should be all you need to get surfacing

Good luck
Tom

 

[MikeG.]

I don't agree with much of the previous post (other than buying an old plane and not spending much money). You can plane perfectly well on any old bench, no matter how high the quality of the furniture you plan to make. You only need one plane (we're talking scaffold boards, for pity sake). I would certainly scrape the surface of a scaffold board first, or belt-sand across the grain, or rotary electric wire-brush it, just to get the grit off it before you put a plane anywhere near it. One number 4 plane properly tuned will do almost anything you want of a plane. It's sheer luxury to have a second plane, otherwise you just spend a bit more time adjusting between the various modes (hogging off large amounts of waste, and then putting a decent finish on the board).

There's so much over-blown advice kicking around about planing that to a newcomer, like we're dealing with here, it can seem like being initiated into an secret society. Keep it simple. A plane is for scraping a layer of wood off. A sharp plane does this better than a blunt one. That is all you need to know at this stage.

 

[Jacob]

I don't agree with much of the previous post (other than buying an old plane and not spending much money). You can plane perfectly well on any old bench, no matter how high the quality of the furniture you plan to make. You only need one plane (we're talking scaffold boards, for pity sake). I would certainly scrape the surface of a scaffold board first, or belt-sand across the grain, or rotary electric wire-brush it, just to get the grit off it before you put a plane anywhere near it. One number 4 plane properly tuned will do almost anything you want of a plane. It's sheer luxury to have a second plane, otherwise you just spend a bit more time adjusting between the various modes (hogging off large amounts of waste, and then putting a decent finish on the board).

There's so much over-blown advice kicking around about planing that to a newcomer, like we're dealing with here, it can seem like being initiated into an secret society. Keep it simple. A plane is for scraping a layer of wood off. A sharp plane does this better than a blunt one. That is all you need to know at this stage.

Agree
Except I'd go for a 5 1/2
Camber essential, which exclude 90% of modern sharpening 'science'.
You can't remove material at all quickly with a straight cutting edge with no camber - as prescribed for the theoretical smoother.
But, interestingly, you can smooth with a cambered blade.
Imagine levelling the top of a tub of ice cream with a spoon. Deep spooned out gouges at first. But then you go over again with a shallower scoop and take off the high points. Then ditto even shallower.
You can work a cambered plane as a smoother in much the same way.
In fact a plane blade without camber is useless except on narrow board edges. A plane is not for scraping a layer of wood off, it's for lifting a shallow scoop off.
This idea of 'reference flat surface' should be quietly forgotten - it's no use to anybody.
And don't forget rule 1; don't do anything until you have a cutting list and always cut to length before starting to plane.
Timber yards may produce "PAR" but individual woodworkers don't.

 

[Ttrees]

Anyone who doesn't think having two planes is essential is a slow coach getting tearout

 

[MikeG.]

Nope.

I've had one bench plane my entire life. I've made furniture professionally.....sold much of it through Liberty in London. I prepped all my boards by hand, and although a longer plane might have helped now and again, I've never had one. The fashion for having a vast collection of planes is something I have always found bizarre, given that it is so completely unnecessary. My only other plane is a block plane, retrieved from a skip.

 

[Jacob]

If tear-out is a prob you need camber, a very sharp blade and a shallow cut. Candle wax on the sole (just a quick scribble) helps enormously but it's not obvious why.
Two planes won't help particularly.

 

[Brandlin]

[...] to a newcomer, [...], it can seem like being initiated into an secret society. Keep it simple. A plane is for scraping a layer of wood off.

Agreed. I'm one of them. It's like trying to read foreign language and penetrate a clique that you failed the entrance exam for.

 

[Ttrees]

Do you still have only one plane Mike,
Or do you have an extra cutter and cap for it?
I wonder how would you be able to come to that conclusion, if you have never had another plane to try
I find it strange if your on a woodworking forum often, to share and learn, like we all are ...
but not try any techniques like the use of the cap iron as in David W's videos?
No mysticism, its clear it works, and is clearly the best way to plane, regardless if you have your way that you do it
the cap iron will dictate otherwise.

The best smoothers are double iron planes, which means...you use the cap iron for it to have influence with the shaving.
Put it this way...
With a reasonably thick smoother shaving, if you have more than a hairs camber on the blade, the cap iron will not have influence,
and you will get tearout
Maybe not if your someone planing agreeable instrument grade softwood,
but for the most of us, that gnarly piece is just around the corner.
A smoother has the cap iron set ready for this or anything else you can plane, it will never give tearout.

I found it amusing on the last thread, how many people refuse to use, or believe that a cap iron setting shaving ,
changes the way you plane, as you dont have to worry about diving the plane off the edge
Its nothing to do with technique, anyone who says not, has not learned to set the cap iron correctly for a smoother.


Tom

 

[MikeG.]

Do you still have only one plane Mike

Yes.

Or do you have an extra cutter and cap for it?

No.

I wonder how would you be able to come to that conclusion, if you have never had another plane to try

The conclusion is that I don't agree with your assertion that two planes are a minimum necessity*. I also don't agree with (in fact I'll ridicule it if you like) your assertion that one needs a reference surface to be able to plane a board. Further, I concluded that talking about the cap iron set to someone who is simply trying to flatten a scaffold board is nonsensical.

I find it strange if your on a woodworking forum often, to share and learn, like we all are ...
but not try any techniques like the use of the cap iron as in David W's videos?

Who on earth said I hadn't? Where did you get that from? I went out and tried it straight away. I didn't find it a big improvement on my previous settings (I'm quite good at planing), and it made pushing the plane harder work.....but I said (on here) that I would persist with trying the technique, and will evaluate it over time.

No mysticism, its clear it works, and is clearly the best way to plane, regardless if you have your way that you do it
the cap iron will dictate otherwise.

No. You don't get to tell me "this is right, and the best way", with the 2 clear inferences: what I am currently doing is wrong, and; that I haven't tried this method. The first is just opinion, and the second a falsehood. I don't take a lot of notice of unevidenced assertion and vehement opinion, and in particular, I don't take any notice of opinions unsupported or even contradicted by my own experience.

The best smoothers are double iron planes, which means...you use the cap iron for it to have influence with the shaving.
Put it this way...
With a reasonably thick smoother shaving, if you have more than a hairs camber on the blade, the cap iron will not have influence,
and you will get tearout
Maybe not if your someone planing agreeable instrument grade softwood,
but for the most of us, that gnarly piece is just around the corner.
A smoother has the cap iron set ready for this or anything else you can plane, it will never give tearout.

Why are you still going on about this? Take a quick look at the title of the thread, and tell me what use a smoother with a tight-set cap iron is going to be. Tell me how useful you think your advice is for someone who doesn't even own a plane yet? Suggesting you'd take a smoother with a tightly set cap iron to a used scaffold board (in particular when the OP said he was after a rustic look) tells me that you either haven't ever seen a used scaffold board, or that you are just here to lecture people about planing, rather than to answer the OP.

I found it amusing on the last thread, how many people refuse to use, or believe that a cap iron setting shaving ,
changes the way you plane, as you dont have to worry about diving the plane off the edge
Its nothing to do with technique, anyone who says not, has not learned to set the cap iron correctly for a smoother.

You're still going on.......


* ETA:

I rather look forward to having more planes to choose from. I'm not wedded to the one-plane thing. The fact is that I'm in dispute with the executors of my father's will, and have been expecting to take ownership of his decent little group of planes for over 10 years now. This is why I haven't gone out and bought a new plane for myself. What I am saying is that one plane is all that you need, even to be a professional cabinet maker, and to tell newcomers otherwise is just to raise silly barriers to our pastime. However, a second weightier plane would be a bonus (especially for the shooting board, where a number 4 doesn't have enough heft for anything substantial).

 

[Jacob]

....... flip your timber over to check your progress
An angle poise lamp is great for shining a light underneath, showing you where the low spot is.
Your aim is for no light, and the piece sitting solid, without propelloring in the middle, or rocking
You can even cheat
I think this might give the quickest results on learning
Coat a section of the bench with crayon (black is best) lay your progress on the crayoned area and rub for 1 second.
Now you know that crayoned area on the timber is high, and the plane will be more than happy to plane off that bit ....

I'd strongly advise against this very eccentric approach.
You can see the logic but it's much easier to just get into the habit of simply looking at the workpiece. This may be enough, but it can help to lay a straightedge across (usually the edge of the plane you are using) and/or using winding sticks.
Straight edge along the length is very ineffective compared to simply looking along the length.
Maybe Ttrees needs to visit an optician?

PS who is the DavidW referred to? I can't say I've ever seen his vids but I'm extremely doubtful about them!

 

[iNewbie]

I'm not wedded to the one-plane thing. The fact is that I'm in dispute with the executors of my father's will, and have been expecting to take ownership of his decent little group of planes for over 10 years now.

You have my sympathies - I'm a couple of years in...

 

[cgarry]

I have a quick question that I hope is not too far off topic. Is it okay to use a cambered blade with a shooting board?

 

[NickN]

I have a quick question that I hope is not too far off topic. Is it okay to use a cambered blade with a shooting board?

One of my next beginner projects is a shooting box, but I'd say that you'd want virtually no camber, perhaps just a little on each corner of the blade, for a shooting plane - which is a good reason for having such a plane as a dedicated tool (or a dedicated blade for a multi-use plane). Any camber will translate as a concavity in the edge of the piece being, er, 'shot'...
I'll probably stump up the money for one of those low-angle 62s eventually.

 

[Jacob]

I have a quick question that I hope is not too far off topic. Is it okay to use a cambered blade with a shooting board?

Yes of course it is, within reason (you wouldn't use a scrub on a shooting board!)
Quite useful - for most purposes you aren't going to able to see the concavity at all but for glued edge jointed boards it could be an advantage.
Anyway you can tilt the blade to set the cut how you like.
Shooting boards are a popular concept but in reality you can manage perfectly well without one. I made one many years ago and have never used it.
If you were into hand made large batch production one could be handy I suppose. It's not a beginners bit of essential kit - it's very specialised - also nobody needs a special plane for the purpose.

 

[NickN]

And that's why I don't post often, I'm usually wrong. Sorry.

 

[cgarry]

Thanks to you both for taking the time to answer my question, it is much appreciated. I look forward to being competent enough with hand planes to sell my planer/thicknesser and chip extractor and free up some much needed space in my tiny single garage!