removing a back bevel

[David C]

I discovered the snag of traditional sharpening, when I bought a new, flat, Arkansas stone. This was after about two years work. The hollow of the India stone, had imposed its shape on the backs of all my chisels, and plane blades. The wire edge could not be removed without lifting the handles of the chisels.

Considered use of waterstones, (I use two for sharpening), will maintain a minute hollow in the back, indefinitely. My method works equally well for Japanese and English chisels. one of the advantages of waterstones is that they can easily be kept flat. Oilstones can also be kept flat, the recipe of silver sand and water on a York paving stone is well known, so it seems that some traditional craftsmen considered this important.

I have a considerable file of feedback from delighted people who have found it works for them too.

David

 

[Jacob]

...
Considered use of waterstones, (I use two for sharpening), will maintain a minute hollow in the back, indefinitely. ....

Ditto oil stones, if that's what you want. Or you can keep them flat, with careful use.
Certainly no need ever to flatten them - waste of time and stone. If you are having to flatten them you are doing it wrong.

 

[MIGNAL]

There's no way that a hollow stone should effect the back of a chisel. That suggests that: (a) the stone really is like the big dipper and (b) you are using far too much of the stone to remove a wire edge.
I doubt that I use much more than 1 inch of stone when removing a wire edge and often going across the narrow width.
Always a random part of the stone.

 

[David C]

A little thought will show that your method will also cause a belly in time.

David

 

[Jacob]

A little thought will show that your method will also cause a belly in time.

David

No bellies on mine Dave! How do you account for that?

 

[bugbear]

A little thought will show that your method will also cause a belly in time.

David

No bellies on mine Dave! How do you account for that?

This stone look nice and new and flat.

Its a whole new technique - when your stone hollows, buy a new one!

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Don't be silly BB.

 

[bugbear]

Don't be silly BB.

India stone with logo still showing=new.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Childish. That new surface is the coarser of the two stones - I'd be honing on the other one which is fairly flat but old and never been flattened. A car boot bargain which I just happened to be using. I've got quite a few stones (trying things out etc) nearly all cheapies and second hand.

 

[Racers]

I think its like rock, the logo goes all the way through!

Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Fwiw - If you have a brain you needn't get the waterstone (or any other stone, come to that) badly hollow in the first place.

 

[MMUK]

 

[Jacob]

Fwiw - If you have a brain you needn't get the waterstone (or any other stone, come to that) badly hollow in the first place.

Exactly

And if you have half a brain:
you can stop increasing the angle by rounding over; once you realise this is happening the traditional solution is to just stop doing it :shock: instead, round under - dip the handle as you go
you easily can hit 30º freehand with a little bit of practice (minutes, not hours)
you can take off the burr on a flattish piece of a hollow stone and avoid Dave's dreadful belly problem
you can use a hollow stone to your advantage when cambering plane blades
and so on.

Happy Easter all. I'm off down to the allotment to look at my dandelions.

 

[Trafalgar]

A little thought will show that your method will also cause a belly in time.

David

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to back off a cutter to flip and exercise the burr. If you're moving the chisel or cutter up and down essentially the entire length of the stone, on its flat face, you are using an incorrect method.

 

[bugbear]

A little thought will show that your method will also cause a belly in time.

David

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to back off a cutter to flip and exercise the burr. If you're moving the chisel or cutter up and down essentially the entire length of the stone, on its flat face, you are using an incorrect method.

So much for what not to do.

Anything positive or constructive to add?

BugBear

 

[MMUK]

FFS! Give it a rest :roll:

 

[DannyEssex]

Sorry for starting off one of these sharpening threads. I only wanted to know how and the best method for removing the back bevel, which I got the answer for on page 1 or 2.

Thanks for everyone of all your views and opinions. Its all been taken on board and stored away

 

[MIGNAL]

:lol: It's quite alright Danny. Thanks for the post. Do come back in a few weeks time and ask a similar question! :shock: :shock:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

:lol: Yes, Danny, I was wondering how many pages it would take. I await groundhog day.

 

[Trafalgar]

A little thought will show that your method will also cause a belly in time.

David

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to back off a cutter to flip and exercise the burr. If you're moving the chisel or cutter up and down essentially the entire length of the stone, on its flat face, you are using an incorrect method.

So much for what not to do.

Anything positive or constructive to add?

BugBear

Jacob already has - one makes short strokes when backing off the flat face. There is no need to run the entire length of the stone and it makes all of the ridiculous stone flattening (at least where oilstones are concerned) a complete waste of time. And if one just can't resist the temptation then back off on the other side of the stone, which will leave it flat essentially in perpetuity (again, where oilstones are concerned).

The only thing repetitive about these sharpening threads is how difficult the majority of people insist on making the whole process -- the formation of multiple bevels front and back, elaborate jigs and jigging, expensive and over-engineered media, imposition of 'thin' rulers (by whose definition I've always wondered), intricate and repetitive flattening and other seemingly never ending stone maintenance tasks.

It's all quite silly when you stand back and take it in as a whole.

To hone a chisel or a plane iron that has not been damaged, one that is only blunt, all one has to do is produce a very fine burr all the way across the unit being honed. By definition, if a burr is present then one has removed metal past the area of bluntness on both front and back (the 'wear' bevel). You only have to work the beveled side to do this. Then, the burr is exercised a couple or three times front-to-back, back-to-front. A fine burr will be more than ready to release and may partially already have done so. The rest is removed and polished on a strop, untreated is fine other than for occasional treatment with leather conditioner to keep it supple. A fine, premium leather strop should not be slathered with a wax-based compound. Fine leather has silica in it to begin with. If you have to treat your leather strop with an abrasive then do it with one that is more a liquid - diamond paste or valve grinding paste. Hard rubber with AlOx powder makes an excellent strop. The Wood is Good company sells a little rig that works great with no fuss at all. It will impart a high degree of polish for those who desire a high sheen.

If one feels it is necessary, then there can be the ever so slightest and practically imperceptible 'lift' ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CUTTER (not just the flat face) on a swipe or two ONLY with exceedingly light pressure, to obliterate the remaining parts of the burr and/or fine rag. This WON'T BE NECESSARY EVERY TIME. It is NEVER necessary to do this on a fine stone - the almost imperceptible lift/additional pressure at the ends that is. Let me repeat, it is NEVER necessary to do this on a stone. This is a job for the strop! The stone did it's job and should be put away after it has formed the fine burr and exercised it back and forth a few times.