removing a back bevel

[David C]

Well one never knows.

David

 

[MMUK]

Define modern - 1930, 1960, 1830 ???

1066AD. Jacob remembers it well :lol:

 

[undergroundhunter]

Define modern - 1930, 1960, 1830 ???

1066AD. Jacob remembers it well :lol:

 

[Jacob]

"Modern" in terms of the obsession with dead flat mirror finished faces is quite recent - the "new sharpening", say 1990s praps? Before that nobody was quite so bothered - hence all those millions of old chisel and plane blades with not very flat faces. The idea of having to "prepare" a chisel is new. A lot of beginners waste a lot of time on this flattening nonsense and risk spoiling their new chisels in the process. Normally you just pick up a new chisel, hone it and start using it 1 or 2 minutes later. If this isn't possible the chisel is defective.

 

[David C]

and "defective" chisels were quite common enough in the esrly seventies.

I have no idea if there was a time when they were not common.

Epidemic levels were reached by the 90's.

The bellys on old tools are caused by poor technique and hollow stones.

Your "new sharpening" obsession is a load of old cobblers.

David

 

[Jacob]

..
The bellys on old tools are caused by poor technique and hollow stones.
..

No they were caused by normal use.
"Bellys" is a bit of an exaggeration for the typical slight variations in flatness we are talking about, which are not a problem and are an inevitable result of normal sharpening. Unavoidable unless you "flatten" every time. No doubt some of the new sharpeners do do this. :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

](*,) Here we go again.

 

[Jacob]

:lol: Here phil.p goes again. Why does he bother?

I do think Dave worries unnecessarily about epidemics of bellies on chisel faces. Anyway the new sharpeners call them "backs" so wouldn't "hunch backs" be a better term. :lol:
An epidemic of hunch backed chisels. :shock: :shock: shock horror.

 

[Richard T]

I'd recommend using a hand cranked grinder Danny, you can take it as slow as you like and control the heat build up. If it is hard work, that's ok as you will feel like stopping regularly to let them cool down. This is a good thing and not a wimp - out

When they are ground back as far as to remove the previous "work" you can use the grinder to put the bevel back. Useful things for emergency situations.

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks Richard, I think that will be the route I will take,

 

[bugbear]

:lol: Here phil.p goes again. Why does he bother?

I do think Dave worries unnecessarily about epidemics of bellies on chisel faces. Anyway the new sharpeners call them "backs" so wouldn't "hunch backs" be a better term. :lol:
An epidemic of hunch backed chisels. :shock: :shock: shock horror.

Perhaps all this ill tempered sniping could be ended in an amicable spirit by arranging a friendly
get together, where various approaches to sharpening (and the resulting edges) could be compared?

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

A meeting like that was held last year but sadly the main proposer of the rounded bevel didn't show!

So "modern" means after 1990 - that must mean the way I was taught to flatten and polish in the 1950's must be "traditional"?

Rod

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I'd recommend using a hand cranked grinder Danny, you can take it as slow as you like and control the heat build up. If it is hard work, that's ok as you will feel like stopping regularly to let them cool down. This is a good thing and not a wimp - out

When they are ground back as far as to remove the previous "work" you can use the grinder to put the bevel back. Useful things for emergency situations.

+1 for hand cranked grinders. A very civilised and controllable way of abrading hard steels.

A small tip for anybody looking for one - try to find one with a 6" wheel if you can. My little 4" one (inherited - and given a clean and oil looks set for another two generations or so of service) was the very divil to find replacement wheels for. You can get 6" grinding wheels almost anywhere.

 

[Jacob]

:lol: Here phil.p goes again. Why does he bother?

I do think Dave worries unnecessarily about epidemics of bellies on chisel faces. Anyway the new sharpeners call them "backs" so wouldn't "hunch backs" be a better term. :lol:
An epidemic of hunch backed chisels. :shock: :shock: shock horror.

Perhaps all this ill tempered sniping could be ended in an amicable spirit by arranging a friendly
get together, where various approaches to sharpening (and the resulting edges) could be compared?

BugBear

What's ill tempered about it?
If anybody wants to drop in here I can do a demo of my preferred way. PM first!

 

[David C]

It is necessary to make the odd comment, to counter Jacob's rather crude misinformation about sharpening.

Use does not create convexity of length on the backs of chisels. This statement is clearly absurd. Convexity is caused by hollow stones and poor sharpening technique, (if it was not there in the beginning from the manufacturer).

David Charlesworth

 

[Jacob]

It is necessary to make the odd comment, to counter Jacob's rather crude misinformation about sharpening.

Use does not create convexity of length on the backs of chisels. This statement is clearly absurd. Convexity is caused by hollow stones and poor sharpening technique, (if it was not there in the beginning from the manufacturer).

David Charlesworth

If you routinely turn a chisel or plane blade to take off the burr you will slowly remove more material from the sharp end of the face, making it less than flat, unless you flatten the whole face every time.
Most (probably all) the new chisels I've ever had have been slightly concave along the length and across the width (as per the Jap chisel but less exaggerated) which makes sharpening very easy, but eventually the advantage is lost.
Not that anybody ever noticed or cared very much - it's just that the new sharpeners have made us much more analytical!

And of course, use will inevitably cause more wear at the sharp end of the face. That's why they tend to be shinier at the sharp end (unless you are a mirror finisher!) So it works two ways.

 

[Racers]

I only turn the chisel or plane blade over on my finest stone, so it would take a couple of life times to have any effect.
Can't you think of a proper drawback to "New Sharpening"?

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I only turn the chisel or plane blade over on my finest stone, so it would take a couple of life times to have any effect.
Can't you think of a proper drawback to "New Sharpening"?

Pete

The main drawback of "New Sharpening" is the time wasted in unnecessary procedures. No-one doubts that it works but it's a time waster and involves a lot of kit.

 

[bugbear]

Can't you think of a proper drawback to "New Sharpening"?

Pete

Personally, I find the honing a small secondary bevel with an Eclipse jig is easy, fast and gives excellent edges.

I find this fashion for "feel the force" sharpening a bit new age-y myself.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

I only turn the chisel or plane blade over on my finest stone, so it would take a couple of life times to have any effect.
Can't you think of a proper drawback to "New Sharpening"?

Pete

The main drawback of "New Sharpening" is the time wasted in unnecessary procedures. No-one doubts that it works but it's a time waster and involves a lot of kit.

Mmm two water-stones an eclipse jig and a strop, can't move in my garage now!

Pete