Putin is a loser

[Jacob]

So in effect what you're saying is that anyone who disagrees with you or has a different perspective on a subject to your own is delusional in your eyes?

Not everybody. Telegraph and Daily Mail readers usually are - that's where the rot sets in.

 

[RobinBHM]

No, what happened was that we in the West helped overthrow the democratically elected government

WRONG

The 2014 Maidan was a result of the then Putin puppet president Yanukovych reneging on the democratically agreed deal with EU and instrad went to his pal Putin for a deal

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/understanding-ukraines-euromaidan-protests

d Reich connections to their grandparents' SS membership

Ah yes the “Ukrainian Nazis”
You are repeating Pure Putin propaganda

sure Ukraine has an issue with the neo Nazi movement, but its just Russian propaganda to claim it has anything to do with Donbas troubles

In fact Azov were engaged in fighting against Wagern and defending Ukraianians in the regino

Ethnic Russians in the Donbas region objected to being treated as Untermench

More Russian propaganda

being forced into buildings and set on fire, etc,

Please go and read what really happened in Odessa instead of posting lies
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27275383

Most Ukrainians have Russian family. This is a civil war between cousins. This is an entirely synthetic, artificial conflict, created by the usual suspects for the usual reason - must destabilise Russia, and way we can.

More Russian propaganda

The troubles in Donbas started because Putin sent in Wagner to annexe Donbas. And he funded and armed Russian backer separatists

Yes, the people of the Crimea really, really did want to be Russian. The had a referendum and declared independence from the the USSR, initially as part 9f the Ukraine but then they wanted their independence.

WRONG

the 2014 referendum only gave 2 false choice, there was no option for the status quo

and as the refworld.org link details

good grief you have linked to an article referring to a guy name "Gary Brecher" a pseudonym used by John Dolan when he wrote in the Exile a Moscow based satirical newspaper

the reality is Crimeans did not want to be Russian:


"My research shows that it is likely that Crimea was not passportised by Russia prior to annexation because Crimea’s residents viewed Russian citizenship as inaccessible, undesirable, illegitimate, and illegal.

Only the minority in pro-Russian parties wanted Russian citizenship. They wanted it to provide leverage against Ukraine. But Russian citizenship was not accessible to them. It was illegal by Ukrainian law. And Russia did not seem to facilitate access to Russian citizenship in Crimea – even for those in pro-Russian parties."

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/rese...crimeans-really-pro-russian-before-annexation






Your post is a stream of Russian propaganda, it’s all the same predictable falsehoods and misinformation spread by the well known Putin apologists that are in the media.

So please stop posting Russian propaganda and go away and do some factual research, not conspiracy theorist misinformation

 

[RobinBHM]

So in effect what you're saying is that anyone who disagrees with you or has a different perspective on a subject to your own is delusional in your eyes?

Tony, every post you write is literally that.

 

[RobinBHM]

Can't really see much point in continuing any debate with you.
You are so far beyond delusional that if I were standing at delusional I would need a telescope to see you.

I dont know whether he actually believes the garbage or just wants to stir trouble

either way its spreading dishonest misinformation

 

[Scruples]

But we can make surmises.

Next best thing is to watch the Adam Curtis films https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0d3hwl1/russia-19851999-traumazone

Not the next best thing. That is just reporting the history as interpreted years later. No comparison there.

 

[ey_tony]

Tony, every post you write is literally that.

...and you aren't guilty of that I suppose? LOL

 

[ey_tony]

I dont know whether he actually believes the garbage or just wants to stir trouble

either way its spreading dishonest misinformation

The problem with ideologues, a category arguably you and others would fit nicely into is that they can't see past their own bigotry and view everyone else totally wrong who doesn't agree with them.

 

[Cozzer]

What a pointless discussion all this has become.
It matters not a jot what your opinions are.
If the situation truly bothers you that much, go and pick up arms and fight for one side or the other...

This whole post is not far removed from a "he said she said" or "my dad's a policeman, and bigger than yours.."

 

[Chris152]

What a pointless discussion all this has become.
It matters not a jot what your opinions are.
If the situation truly bothers you that much, go and pick up arms and fight for one side or the other...

This whole post is not far removed from a "he said she said" or "my dad's a policeman, and bigger than yours.."

I disagree, I find some of the arguments interesting, even challenging, but once it becomes 'you're this', 'you're like that' it does get utterly pointless.

 

[ey_tony]

Irrespective of whether or not all of what Tn is entirely true or not it does pour water onto your Western fed propaganda bigotry and it may even come as a surprise to you that there are people out there who see what is happening without the issue of myopia that propaganda produces.

I don't support any wars including this one as it has its roots in ideology on both sides and unfortunately it's always the foot soldier and civilians who pay the terrible price and for what? No doubt it will inevitably be settled around the negotiating tables but thousands of lives will have been lost in cause of ideology.

 

[RobinBHM]

view everyone else totally wrong who doesn't agree with them.

But Tony, that is literally you

Please read your own posts, you might realise you are the worst example of what you accuse others of

 

[RobinBHM]

Irrespective of whether or not all of what Tn is entirely true or not it does pour water onto your Western fed propaganda bigotry

Trainee Neophyte is posting Putin propaganda
I havent posted "Western fed propaganda history", just facts -backed up with links and evidence



Your problem Tony is everything you write on here is based on your opinion, its never backed up with facts, evidence, data nor is it backed up with any links, you never provide any counter argument

to be honest its rather sad for you, as you wont learn anything.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

So in effect what you're saying is that anyone who disagrees with you or has a different perspective on a subject to your own is delusional in your eyes?

Sigh.
No, that's not what he said.

What he said goes like this:

"You know that article you quoted from, choosing parts to support your view - why did you cherry pick from it? Why didn't you also include the part where the author of the article you used to support your view, actually wrote that he disagrees with your view."

I understood exactly what he meant. It wasn't because of a disagreement of opinion - it was pointing out that the article that was quoted from indicates a view that was in contradiction against what it was used to support.

Your post illustrates, yet again, that you view "opinions" with which you agree as somehow unchallengeable. Even when there appears to be stronger evidence contradicting them than supporting them.

It is like holding an opinion of "two plus two equals five" and that being somehow sacrosanct because it is an opinion with which you agree. And then crying out when somebody points out that two plus two is actually four, and here is the irrefutable evidence. But still saying "my opinion differs, why are you attacking because my opinion differs from yours". It's just silly.

 

[Fergie 307]

So in effect what you're saying is that anyone who disagrees with you or has a different perspective on a subject to your own is delusional in your eyes?

Not at all.
And I have to say coming from you that really is quite funny.
Have you really so little self awareness that you cannot see the hypocrisy of that observation?

Happy to confine "delusional" it to people who quote stuff that is demonstrably incorrect, or engage in whataboutery based on either ignorance of the subject, or wilful blindness to things that don't suit their argument.
TN's observations about the West recruiting former Nazis after the war springs to mind.
The clear inference being that the Soviets would never stoop to such things.
Except of course that they did, arguably on an even larger scale than the Americans, so either he was ignorant of that, or simply chose to ignore it.
Don't know which, but in the absence of any acknowledgement, perhaps along the lines of "I wasn't aware of that". I have to assume he is either a hypocrite, or unwilling to admit that the Soviets were not exactly a shining example of taking the moral high ground.

Both you and TN have a habit of responding to any kind of fact checking by just changing the subject, or doubling down by quoting more nonsense in support of the nonsense you started with.

Quite happy to have a debate with anyone, and entirely content that people may interpret the same facts in different ways, and so come to differing conclusions. Their conclusions and how they arrive at them can be very informative, and can be entirely respected even if you disagree with them.

All I ask is that if people want their views to be taken seriously and respected, then they ought to base their argument on sound evidence, rather than merely opinion, ignorance or discredited conspiracy theories.

But never mind, you will continue to peddle your View of the world according to Trump, as TN will no doubt continue to champion the cause of the lovely Mr Putin, each of you happy in your own little bubbles.