Power of Attorney - just a Heads Up to say ...

[RogerS]

.....you do realise that when the person whose financial affairs you are dealing with dies, then the PoA ceases to exist ? Different banks will handle things in different ways from then on. Some will still let you access accounts to pay for funeral expenses etc. Others won't.

DAMHIKT.

 

[lurker]

Technically the moment anyone dies all assets are frozen pending the probate.
Assuming the will is not complicated (my brother and I were only beneficiaries) some banks etc are easier to deal with than others. TSB were a pain but, I went to mums branch bank and the manager sorted everything for me whilst I waited. Santander were ok but mainly because I banked there. Halifax were truly hopeless, the bank manager’s vocabulary was limited to “ I can’t help ”. The local building society that my parents had used for forty years and several counter staff were family friends (and attended mums funeral) wanted a stupid amount of evidence that both my mum and dad (who had died 15 earlier) were both deceased.

 

[Mrs C]

When the person dies doesn’t the control go to the executor?

 

[RogerS]

When the person dies doesn’t the control go to the executor?

Yes-ish. First you have to prove who the executor is ...

 

[Bod]

Mentioned in the Will, or if no will, then whoever has been granted Letters of Administration.
Well travelled path, but one that can be misunderstood.
Funeral Directors bills are the only costs that Banks are allowed to pay before Probate.
Some Banks will hand over the contents of accounts to Executors, on production of Death certificate. Amounts do vary.
Leaving to the honesty of the Executor, what gets distributed. For small estates, it reduces the paperwork, but doesn't help family interests!
Yes, as you found POA stops on death, Executor-ship then starts. May be the same person, or a different one.

Bod

 

[RogerS]

....
Funeral Directors bills are the only costs that Banks are allowed to pay before Probate.
.....

Bod

Ha ! Never thought I'd be 'grateful' to Covid. Maximum number round the grave. 15 mins max. That's it. Job done. No drinkie-poos and nibbles for all the people that are crawling out of the woodwork wanting a day out. People who MIL loathed and never saw or spoke to.

Never thought I could be shocked but when MIL dies at 3pm and 7.30pm that evening, the FD rings up to discuss the funeral. Well, really..SWMBO hadn't even finished her celebratory glass of fizz. But SWMBO had already planned the funeral. Been in to see the funeral directors months ago. Had the card, the brochure. Knew what the hard sell would be. FD cut off at the knees before she even started... :twisted:

Hey ho. And now we discover that the solicitors who were holding the will have been taken over and that all things such as wills in safe custody have gone to the centralised warehouse aka 'non-safe custody' as they can't find it. You couldn't make it up. It has all the hallmarks of brilliant Richard Curtis film. Now which actor could play my role ? No, don't answer that :lol:

 

[Lons]

You couldn't make it up. It has all the hallmarks of brilliant Richard Curtis film. Now which actor could play my role ? No, don't answer that :lol:

The one with the shotgun exacting revenge Roger. Sorry couldn't resist. :wink:

It's a nightmare, hope you get everything sorted quickly.

We checked and had access to my MiL will just last week as it's deposited with a local solicitor and I didn't know about the PoA issue until you mentioned it so we're concerned at the minute as her house sale is at an advanced stage but delayed and we were informed at the weekend that her care home has it's first corvid 19 case. MiL is 93 with a number of health issues including severe asthma so at risk.

 

[RogerS]

Fingers crossed for you and your MIL, Lons.

 

[SammyQ]

"Now which actor could play my role ? No, don't answer that "

Rowan Atkinson in "the man in seat 23C2 mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjyjm1pTTKw

Or, better still, "the father of the bride" mode?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFiHVTFmKbo

Bob Newhart also comes to mind... :-"

Sam, cutting and running, fast.

 

[SammyQ]

"Fingers crossed for you and your MIL, Lons."

Seconded. Bob made his post as I was composing my wee-take response to Roger, but with MY 95-year-old M-in-L in a sheltered accommodation not far from Bob's location, the satire drained away pronto, when I realized the import of his message.

Sam

 

[Geoff_S]

I think this dying business is an example of one of life's minefields that should be taught at school.

 

[RobinBHM]

My Dad died yesterday (he was 92 very frail, being cared for at home by carers coming in, but weve had to do a lot during the 'end of life stage' including giving morphine).

My sister has been using his account to pay his bills -we both assume that although we could easily pay out from the account, that is not legal now. It makes things difficult as of course we have care agency costs, bills etc to sort out. We need the gardener to continue and I guess we will have to pay for these things at the moment.

Its kind of a shame that my sister didnt transfer some money out a few weeks ago.


on another note, which I hadnt anticipated, the carers found my Dad when they visited yest morning, and they called 999 and asked for police and paramedic (their procedure). The police got their first and insisted they had to treat it as an 'unexpected death' which meant their undertaker and a coroner. My sister went mad and they threatened to arrest her!

 

[Geoff_S]

My Dad suggested that it would be a good idea if I was a signatory on his bank account in his last years, effectively a joint account. It made a big difference when the inevitable arrived. I had immediate and unlimited access to the account as the funds were technically mine.

 

[RogerS]

When my mother died, we carried on using her bank account for expenses etc and no-one batted an eyelid.

Robin..are you aware of the excellent Govt website tell us once ? https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organi ... ll-us-once

 

[D_W]

on another note, which I hadnt anticipated, the carers found my Dad when they visited yest morning, and they called 999 and asked for police and paramedic (their procedure). The police got their first and insisted they had to treat it as an 'unexpected death' which meant their undertaker and a coroner. My sister went mad and they threatened to arrest her!

Interesting conclusion for them to jump to when someone is on a hospice regimen.

 

[RogerS]

on another note, which I hadnt anticipated, the carers found my Dad when they visited yest morning, and they called 999 and asked for police and paramedic (their procedure). The police got their first and insisted they had to treat it as an 'unexpected death' which meant their undertaker and a coroner. My sister went mad and they threatened to arrest her!

Interesting conclusion for them to jump to when someone is on a hospice regimen.

But they don't know that when they arrive. Our police are not quite as draconian as US police TBH. Also their procedures are mandated for them and so they have no choice.

 

[RobinBHM]

on another note, which I hadnt anticipated, the carers found my Dad when they visited yest morning, and they called 999 and asked for police and paramedic (their procedure). The police got their first and insisted they had to treat it as an 'unexpected death' which meant their undertaker and a coroner. My sister went mad and they threatened to arrest her!

Interesting conclusion for them to jump to when someone is on a hospice regimen.

I know!

It happened because the care agency obviously have that as their procedure, probably its due to the CQC. The paramedic that attended, sorted it out -he rang the out of hours doctor who confirmed it was an explained death, even then the policeman needed the paramedic to ring the police sergeant.

We now have a selection of 'anticipatory drugs' including morphine, which the pharmacy wont take back. I guess we will have to wash it down the plughole.

 

[D_W]

Not sure if you have prescription disposal programs there (some of them may even tie to third world donations).

You can flush them here, it's not illegal, but many municipalities have prescription disposal programs for old or unused scripts as the sanitary authority says they'd prefer we don't do it. I'd bet the slurry at the bottom of a dump (especially now that they have bladders and don't leak) could:
*ease pain
*fix depression
*lower blood pressure
*quell anxiety
*solve erectile dysfunction

Hopefully, the cleaned wastewater can't do that, too!!

 

[Blackswanwood]

My Dad died yesterday (he was 92 very frail, being cared for at home by carers coming in, but weve had to do a lot during the 'end of life stage' including giving morphine).

My sister has been using his account to pay his bills -we both assume that although we could easily pay out from the account, that is not legal now. It makes things difficult as of course we have care agency costs, bills etc to sort out. We need the gardener to continue and I guess we will have to pay for these things at the moment.

Its kind of a shame that my sister didnt transfer some money out a few weeks ago.


on another note, which I hadnt anticipated, the carers found my Dad when they visited yest morning, and they called 999 and asked for police and paramedic (their procedure). The police got their first and insisted they had to treat it as an 'unexpected death' which meant their undertaker and a coroner. My sister went mad and they threatened to arrest her!

I am sorry for your loss Robin.

Roger's point about the Tell us Once service is worth considering. A word of caution though that it doesn't at the moment notify everyone that it eventually will and you will still be left needing to tell some organisations separately. If you notify one of the big banks they also have a process called the Death Notification Service where they will inform each other. This isn't instantaneous and they are trying to improve it.

Banks have a code of conduct put together through UK Finance covering Bereavement and they will make payments to cover immediate expenses and to avoid hardship prior to Probate being granted (or Letters of Administration issued). Up to a limit most will also close and transfer funds if they are satisfied they are dealing with the legitimate personal representative without waiting for the Grant of Probate or LoA.

Some of the issues covered in the posts above will relate to bank staff not being sure about their own processes rather than policy. Retaining competency across a large workforce for something that they may not come across regularly is difficult. I'm not defending it - just trying to offer an explanation! They also have to be careful - I'm sure no one on this forum would do such a thing but it has been known for a greedy sibling to try and circumvent a will by siphoning off a few accounts before the executor knows about the death. Again, I am not defending over zealous application of policies or stupid requirements.

If a bank refuses to make a payment for immediate needs of the estate stand your ground, stay calm and ask to speak to a manager as you want to complain.

Again, sorry for your loss. I hope despite the current restrictions the arrangements go smoothly for you and your family.

 

[RogerS]

And a fair number of them also haven't got a clue about PoA. While MIL was still a live but bedridden, LOML wanted to set up a meeting with the local Santander branch to go through the PoA stuff.

"Your mother will have to come in".
"But she's bedridden"
"She still needs to come in"
"You do know what bed-ridden means ?"
"well, we'll have to speak to her first on the telephone then"
"But she has got Alzheimers. She won't have a clue what you are talking about".