Plane (and sharpening) training?

[sploo]

A long time ago I was given a Stanley No 4 hand plane, and also own a small number of (similarly budget) chisels. It's pretty rare that I use them, but on occasion they come in useful.

I think part of the problem is a lack of understanding of good planing technique, and especially the fact my attempts at sharpening are always disappointing.

Are there any training courses in the Oxfordshire/Berkshire area for this sort of thing? I suspect that a weekend course would be sufficient for the (very) basics, and may even introduce me to other types of plane.

 

[AndyT]

Sploo, there's a sticky here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post638372.html#p638372 at the top of the General Woodworking section which lists UK training courses.
You will need to travel a bit, but some of them do run short courses covering the basics that you want.

For instance, Chris Tribe in Ilkley http://www.christribefurniturecourses.com/index.php/tool-sharpening-and-fettling-weekend/.

 

[sploo]

Thanks. That looks ideal; as well as Peter Sefton's course. The problem is that with a young family it would be difficult for me to be away from home for a couple of days, so a local course would be much preferred.

 

[Bigbud78]

Thanks. That looks ideal; as well as Peter Sefton's course. The problem is that with a young family it would be difficult for me to be away from home for a couple of days, so a local course would be much preferred.

Watch some of Paul sellers video's, I then also got a sharpening jig as I just could't get the hang of it free hand but now my planes and chisels are sharp

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Sploo,

If Banbury isn't too far away, you are welcome to pop in for a coffee and I can run you through the basics.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Ditto Sploo. I'm in a village near Reading and you're also welcome to spend a weekend morning round here. We can easily cover the basics in that time. The charge would be 1 x packet hob nobs (chocolate of course)

 

[graduate_owner]

On the subject of chisel sharpening, I use various grades of diamond stones in conjunction with an Axminster honing guide and I seem to get an acceptably sharp edge (well they seem sharp to me) but I never seem to get an edge that will shave hairs off my arm. Is this really achievable, and if so, is it worth achieving such a keen edge since the edge will presumably be dulled rapidly anyway once the chisel is put to work?

K

 

[Zeddedhed]

Sploo, as someone who regularly conducts business using Hob Nobs as the preferred currency, Randoms offer is one you shouldn't turn down.
Personally I'd also take Matthew up on his offer too - he doesn't even ask for something as lowly as Rich Tea let alone Hob Nobs!! You can't go wrong.

 

[lanemaux]

Hi Graduate. I cannot speak to how much needed such an edge as "shaving sharp" might be , but it is definately achievable . I use a combination of media to get to a bare forearm scenario. The very finest of media is key to getting that polished razor edge and I'm unsure as to whether diamond stones will get you that far. You might get some ultra-fine wet / dry from an auto body shop as a final grit level and try once more. Works for me , as my wife can tell when I've been sharpening by looking at my forearms. That's because the beard stays, no matter what the MIL thinks of it.

 

[Paul Chapman]

On the subject of chisel sharpening, I use various grades of diamond stones in conjunction with an Axminster honing guide and I seem to get an acceptably sharp edge (well they seem sharp to me) but I never seem to get an edge that will shave hairs off my arm. Is this really achievable, and if so, is it worth achieving such a keen edge since the edge will presumably be dulled rapidly anyway once the chisel is put to work?

K

Yes, it is worth achieving a super-sharp edge. The easiest way for you to do this is to use some DMT diamond paste on a block of wood after honing on your diamond stones.

I currently use the DMT extra fine stone (green), then a block of wood with 6 micron paste followed by another block of wood with 1 micron paste. Use the blocks of wood just like you would a sharpening stone.

I use 3-in-1 oil on my stones and mix a little oil with the honing paste (you need only a small bit of paste so it lasts for ages).

You'll be amazed at the difference a really sharp blade makes.

The DMT paste is available from Classic Hand Tools https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... mpund.html

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[G S Haydon]

It's unlikely you'd find yourself in Devon but if you send me a PM. We'd have you making shaving in no time

 

[sploo]

Hi Sploo,

If Banbury isn't too far away, you are welcome to pop in for a coffee and I can run you through the basics.

Ditto Sploo. I'm in a village near Reading and you're also welcome to spend a weekend morning round here. We can easily cover the basics in that time. The charge would be 1 x packet hob nobs (chocolate of course)

Matthew/Bob - huge thanks, and greatly appreciated. Banbury's about an hour away, Reading less, so both are nicely feasible.

Somewhat unusually, I find myself free on the weekend of the 24th/25th Oct and also the 31st Oct/1st Nov. Would any of those days work for either of you?

Sploo, as someone who regularly conducts business using Hob Nobs as the preferred currency, Randoms offer is one you shouldn't turn down.
Personally I'd also take Matthew up on his offer too - he doesn't even ask for something as lowly as Rich Tea let alone Hob Nobs!! You can't go wrong.

Yea, I'd like to meet Bob. His BS400 review thread is excellent. I've got one of the early BS300 units, and with some fettling it's been a decent saw.

There is a problem though; despite not being a hand tool guy, I've just taken a look at Matthew's website - it's basically a crack cocaine dealership for woodworkers. It may hurt my wallet :wink:

It's unlikely you'd find yourself in Devon but if you send me a PM. We'd have you making shaving in no time

Thanks also. I don't get down that way too often, but it is an area we do visit (Paignton Zoo is a favourite).

 

[sploo]

On the subject of chisel sharpening, I use various grades of diamond stones in conjunction with an Axminster honing guide and I seem to get an acceptably sharp edge (well they seem sharp to me) but I never seem to get an edge that will shave hairs off my arm. Is this really achievable, and if so, is it worth achieving such a keen edge since the edge will presumably be dulled rapidly anyway once the chisel is put to work?

K

Yes - this is exactly my issue with chisels. I've also got an Axminster honing guide (this one, IRC: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-de ... ning-guide) and I use (from memory, I'm not in the garage right now) an India oil stone like this: http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-317227/indi ... wwodARsF7w (I was given both the plane and the stone, hence the vagueness)

I can grind and smooth a chisel so that it appears sharp, and it does an ok job of cutting, but nowhere near being able to cut into the edge of a piece of paper (or hair).

In terms of the hand plane, I've never really felt I understood it enough to fettle or set it up properly. It's hardly ever been used, but I'm currently making something from some reclaimed varnished pine, and it occurred to me that I could plane off the varnish before I put it through the thickness planer, as it'd likely be easier to sharpen the old (and probably blunt) blade than replace the thicknesser's knives. The job's gone much better than I expected, and I actually really enjoyed using it, but I'm aware I've got limitations/questions that probably could be answered by someone with experience - hence starting this thread.

 

[rafezetter]

Yes - this is exactly my issue with chisels. I've also got an Axminster honing guide (this one, IRC: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-de ... ning-guide) and I use (from memory, I'm not in the garage right now) an India oil stone like this: http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-317227/indi ... wwodARsF7w (I was given both the plane and the stone, hence the vagueness)

I can grind and smooth a chisel so that it appears sharp, and it does an ok job of cutting, but nowhere near being able to cut into the edge of a piece of paper (or hair).

In terms of the hand plane, I've never really felt I understood it enough to fettle or set it up properly. It's hardly ever been used, but I'm currently making something from some reclaimed varnished pine, and it occurred to me that I could plane off the varnish before I put it through the thickness planer, as it'd likely be easier to sharpen the old (and probably blunt) blade than replace the thicknesser's knives. The job's gone much better than I expected, and I actually really enjoyed using it, but I'm aware I've got limitations/questions that probably could be answered by someone with experience - hence starting this thread.

That india stone is designed for site work, sharpening a chisel just enough for basic timber needs. Hair shaving sharp for finer work can only be acheived if you go up to a minimum of 5,000 grit, and even then only if the cutting face and the back, or a micro back bevel of the plane blade or chisel have been worked on and are absolutely flat to meet each other at a razor edge. I've been honing my chisels for a while now using scary sharp method and while going up to 3,000 paper gives me an edge super sharp by normal chisel users standards and certainly sharp enough for most woods you'll come across; 3,000 just isn't hair slicing sharp. As a coincedence tonite I've just been doing a few more of my old wood handles chisels I bought from here that all need attention and have only taken them to 3,000 using a jig the same as yours (although an original Narex) and while super sharp, it won't cut the hairs on my arm.

I also agree super sharp (3k+) is worth having for ease and safety reasons - sharper = easier to remove unwanted wood = less pressure applied and thus less chance of slippage and hurting yourself. 1200 grit is plenty sharp enough to open a finger or palm with no problem, but slicing wafers off endgrain oak (for dovetails) it won't.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Not that shaving my arm is the aim of my sharpening, but I normally only bother with going to 1000 g and I can shave my arms no problem.

Either you have extremely tough arm hair or mine is super soft. Or something else.......

 

[Jacob]

On the subject of chisel sharpening, I use various grades of diamond stones in conjunction with an Axminster honing guide and I seem to get an acceptably sharp edge (well they seem sharp to me) but I never seem to get an edge that will shave hairs off my arm. Is this really achievable, and if so, is it worth achieving such a keen edge since the edge will presumably be dulled rapidly anyway once the chisel is put to work?

K

Yes - this is exactly my issue with chisels. I've also got an Axminster honing guide (this one, IRC: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-de ... ning-guide) and I use (from memory, I'm not in the garage right now) an India oil stone like this: http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-317227/indi ... wwodARsF7w (I was given both the plane and the stone, hence the vagueness)

I can grind and smooth a chisel so that it appears sharp, and it does an ok job of cutting, but nowhere near being able to cut into the edge of a piece of paper (or hair).

In terms of the hand plane, I've never really felt I understood it enough to fettle or set it up properly. It's hardly ever been used, but I'm currently making something from some reclaimed varnished pine, and it occurred to me that I could plane off the varnish before I put it through the thickness planer, as it'd likely be easier to sharpen the old (and probably blunt) blade than replace the thicknesser's knives. The job's gone much better than I expected, and I actually really enjoyed using it, but I'm aware I've got limitations/questions that probably could be answered by someone with experience - hence starting this thread.

That india stone will do all you need for some time to come. Best to just master the one technique rather than fiddling about with lot of different kit and stuff. You will know when you need something better but this may be some years away, if ever.
I'd dump the honing guide - they make sharpening more difficult and are the main reason for the diversity of techniques on offer - all trying to make the best of a dud idea.

Keep it simple - freehand on an oil stone,.

 

[JonnyW]

Hi Sploo. Like most mortal woodworkers, I've been looking for that 'perfect' edge for a while now too, and have slowly - after many, many, many trials - settled on a sharpening solution that suits me (and I'm sure it's still wrong or could be vastly improved upon). But as you'll already know, the internet, this forum and other forums, are absolutely jamb packed full of methods and opinions (all really really good). And so they should be, as like I said, everyone has their preferred method of sharpening. This is such a hot topic, that you are sometimes scared to give an opinion on it.

If you're looking for a really interesting read on the subject of sharpening, read Ron Hock's The Perfect Edge. A really good read. It also discusses steel, what it is etc etc, and the subject that obsesses me - rust!

For what it's worth, and if you're not done this already, build yourself a dedicated sharpening station (as the Yanks call it). For me, it was a hefty table set to the right honing height (for me), with an added platform a bit higher in height for my grinder (a Record WG250 - brilliant by the way). I unscrew the grinder from the platform and put it inside the unit under the table when I'm not using it. I also have a couple of drawers for all the accoutrements that go along with sharpening. I put 10mm float glass on part of the table top, for maintaining and renovating planes (can easily accommodate a no. 8 sliding back and fore).

OK, I concede, it's fine if you have the room in your garage/workshop. However, it was the best thing I ever did to encrouage me to keep my tool edges keen. Having to take all the bits and pieces out of a cupboard and set them up on your bench (not to mention trying to control the mess), I found was such a palaver, I would end up using a chisel that really needed a good going over because I couldn't be bothered.

Sorry if I'm teaching you how to suck eggs here.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your one-on-one. I wish I could come along and soak up some of their wisdom.

Regards

Jonny

 

[bugbear]

...then a block of wood with 6 micron paste followed by another block of wood with 1 micron paste. Use the blocks of wood just like you would a sharpening stone.

Do you sharpen on the push stroke, pull stroke, or both? I'd be worried about the blade digging in on the push stroke.

After all, sharp chisels can cut wood :wink:

Using a pull stroke, a honing guide, or both might reduce the issue.

BugBear

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Hi Sploo,

If Banbury isn't too far away, you are welcome to pop in for a coffee and I can run you through the basics.

Ditto Sploo. I'm in a village near Reading and you're also welcome to spend a weekend morning round here. We can easily cover the basics in that time. The charge would be 1 x packet hob nobs (chocolate of course)

Matthew/Bob - huge thanks, and greatly appreciated. Banbury's about an hour away, Reading less, so both are nicely feasible.

Somewhat unusually, I find myself free on the weekend of the 24th/25th Oct and also the 31st Oct/1st Nov. Would any of those days work for either of you?

Sploo, as someone who regularly conducts business using Hob Nobs as the preferred currency, Randoms offer is one you shouldn't turn down.
Personally I'd also take Matthew up on his offer too - he doesn't even ask for something as lowly as Rich Tea let alone Hob Nobs!! You can't go wrong.

Yea, I'd like to meet Bob. His BS400 review thread is excellent. I've got one of the early BS300 units, and with some fettling it's been a decent saw.

There is a problem though; despite not being a hand tool guy, I've just taken a look at Matthew's website - it's basically a crack cocaine dealership for woodworkers. It may hurt my wallet :wink:

It's unlikely you'd find yourself in Devon but if you send me a PM. We'd have you making shaving in no time

Thanks also. I don't get down that way too often, but it is an area we do visit (Paignton Zoo is a favourite).

Drop me a pm with your batphone number and we can sort something out. Cheers.

 

[Paul Chapman]

...then a block of wood with 6 micron paste followed by another block of wood with 1 micron paste. Use the blocks of wood just like you would a sharpening stone.

Do you sharpen on the push stroke, pull stroke, or both? I'd be worried about the blade digging in on the push stroke.

After all, sharp chisels can cut wood :wink:

Using a pull stroke, a honing guide, or both might reduce the issue.

BugBear

Hi BB,

With narrow chisels, it's best to use just the pull stroke to avoid digging in but with wide chisels and plane blades I find it OK to push and pull. I use a honing guide - just bought the new Lie Nielsen, which really is the dogs whatsits 8)

I picked up the tip about using diamond paste on wood from Garrett Hack a few years ago and his blades are really sharp. Here's a demo of how he does it http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/v ... hisel.aspx

Cheers :wink:

Paul