Persuading a non payer

[artie]

That chap has got his face on the internet as being a liar for £450?

That's another sticky point, it's one thing to apply some leverage to collect an "alleged debt"
But could it be considered going too far to out the person publicly.

 

[julianf]

That's another sticky point, it's one thing to apply some leverage to collect an "alleged debt"
But could it be considered going too far to out the person publicly.

The chap said he had paid and then asked for the bank details to pay again.

Right to privacy? Borderline. Looks like the incident was clearly visible from council owned ground - ie somewhere you would not expect to have privacy.

 

[D_W]

I've never had to withhold payment, but I've also never used a lowest dollar contractor unless someone I already know ends up being lowest dollar.

If someone did a job that didn't meet the terms of agreement, I'd withhold payment and let them take it to court instead. Not my job as a property owner to pay ahead of time and wait for someone to fix faulty work and then take them to court.

Far more common here is contractors and subs that don't complete the work as per agreement and then vacate than those who don't pay them.

 

[AJB Temple]

I am a lawyer. No longer practising. Private CCTV is fully admissible for both criminal and civil purposes. Only really useful here when it identifies the perpetrator clearly and the wrongdoing. The scaffolder is unwise. Potentially turning a civil matter into a criminal one, and providing photographic evidence of same. Home owner should not have engaged in debate.

 

[D_W]

The chap said he had paid and then asked for the bank details to pay again.

Right to privacy? Borderline. Looks like the incident was clearly visible from council owned ground - ie somewhere you would not expect to have privacy.

Probably varies by state here (almost sure it does, except public officials are barred from any right to refuse being recorded in public -that's been painful to get to).

Generally, you can record from a public right away, but you'll potentially have trouble if you are recording from a public right away into a private area. For example, if you are recording toward a house and see inside the house through windows, you're not protected in rights to do that unless it's incidental.

I'm a cynic, too - when these schadenfreude type videos show up, I usually assume that someone is in on both sides of it. Golly ghee, look, they got even - zany. It's profitable to pretend that revenge was had.

Cross posting here, but I tend to believe half of the people going into the capitol with phones were just abuzz with the possibility of getting ad revenue in the hundreds or thousands vs. the typical fine of $50. Many had their phones taken away and got charged with more Oops!!

 

[XH558]

Fail to pay then claim via the small claims court. The successful outcome results in damaging the credit rating of anyone living at that address the last time I checked. Not the most exciting outcome nor the most dramatic/spectacular but it works for me.

 

[treeturner123]

I've had to issue court proceedings for reclaiming debt 3 times. Each time I won. One the second occasion, the debt collectors were called in. The debtor gave them a false name. They didn't like that apparently!!

Last time, in spite of the debtor claiming they had no money, lo and behold a week before court, up pops a solicitor on their behalf to try to 'Negotiate'. I stuck out for court till the last minute when they paid the debt AND monies for my distress plus additional costs. Altogether about 150% of the original debt!

 

[mikej460]

The only right way to seek payment is through all normal avenues first (face to face, then written request to pay, then written response to their refusal to pay requesting written explanation for non-payment). Then one final demand for payment with a set date which is the latest date you will accept. Make it clear that if payment is not received by this date you will go to the small claims court and send it by registered mail. If they don't pay then apply to the small claims court but make sure you have evidence of your attempts to seek payment.

 

[AJB Temple]

I agree with Mike in essence. Courts do not award money for distress in civil actions and costs are prescribed. Most cases are issued on line via centralised fast track after the expected letter before action. Small claims court terminology is no longer used in the court system. You hear lots of tales of people doing this that and the other via the court system. Most of them appear to be tall tales. In my experience debt disputes usually have two sides and rarely is anyone 100% right. Courts strongly encourage mediation. Compromise is a better idea than litigation in almost all cases.

 

[profchris]

Is this you opinion or is it fact.?
I am not a lawyer I don't even play one on TV, but I can see many pitfalls. time verification, chain of evidence, intent

I'm a law professor, and my first article on electronic evidence was published in I think 1987.

But definitely worth checking!

 

[Deadeye]

You folk have a great deal more faith and, it seems, success in the county courts than my experience.
I applied to recover a debt - and had the full amount awarded.
Chap has not paid, and has moved house so there is nowhere to serve further notices.
Furthermore I was advised that bailiffs can only force entry if the debt is owed to HMRC or the Local Authority for Council tax. Otherwise they have to give a week's notice of attending and can only enter if allowed to do so. They try three times and give up. My legal advice was that I could spend a ton of money and get nowhere.

 

[Doug71]

Maybe I have been lucky but so far I have not had any bad payers. As soon as I speak to a customer I generally get a sense of if I will work for them or not. If it's a new customer I always ask for part payment upfront to at least cover materials so if things go wrong somewhere along the way I'm not out of pocket. If I was for example making and fitting windows for a customer I would ask for another payment when I had finished making the windows but before I fitted them.

A lot of disputes can be avoided, they normally happen when details haven't been discussed, written down and signed.

Another common cause of dispute is when people change their minds or extra work is done and the customer doesn't realise how much it has added to the bill.

Tradesmen and customers don't help themselves when they start working for cash as there are no records or proof of payment/none payment etc.

 

[AJB Temple]

Over the years my business partner (she's a practising solicitor) and I have been engaged in various legal cases - chasing non-paying clients or other civil matters. In a former role (hedge fund) we had numerous lawyers in my team. One thing you quickly learn is that litigation wastes a hell of a lot of time and money whatever the outcome.

Having employed numerous tradesmen over many years, I've only "had serious words" with two. One claimed a false VAT registration and added VAT to his bill, the other stole paving slabs from a site I owned and was stupid enough to use them at his own house. My experience is that the vast majority of tradesmen are decent people who do not want to leg you over or fall out. Life is too short to waste it having trivial disputes. I am having an issue currently with a glazing company. Their sliding doors don't fit perfectly. I am being nice - and they are being co-operative. It will get fixed and we will not fall out. Just avoid getting into entrenched positions and see things from the other side as well as yours. Be fair and honest. It's not difficult, but the guys in the original clip were deeply dug in.

 

[Mark Hancock]

Not sure if it is still an option but having successfully used the county court court a few time on gaining judgement the "oral examination" is more powerful than sending the bailiffs in. It required the defendant attending before a judge to answer questions about their finances, Failure to attend resulted in an arrest warrant being issued. Worked every time.

 

[Sheptonphil]

I ran a computer sales and repair shop in town for twenty years. I sold a new machine to a local performing arts academy. After three months of pursuing payment unsuccessfully, I walked into the building to the reception desk where the computer was being used brandishing insulated wire cutters and promised to cut every wire coming from the back of it and walk out the building with it (and their data) unless the invoice was pain in full there and then. (I could pull the main power cord out, the rest is pretty much non powered).

Ten minutes later I had a cheque which I did a fast track in the bank three doors away.

It cleared.

Not long after they went under, leaving numerous local businesses out of pocket. Bar stewards.

 

[Doug71]

Even if I was in the habit of not paying people I certainly wouldn't choose to not pay a gang of scaffolders, it's never really going to end well is it

 

[Misterdog]

That chap has got his face on the internet as being a liar for £450?

Looked like the house was probably worth a few quid, shiny car on a private drive, and he doesn't value his rep at less than half a grand?

They should make TV programmes about bad payers as they do with bad tradesmen.
I'm know for a fact There are those who are serial non payers.
I made a kitchen recently for a woman who tried to get £4K worth of extra work included for nothing.
My fitter told me they had fitted her last kitchen 10 years earlier and she had done exactly the same to that supplier.

She was a piece of work, tears on the phone, oh but I'm having a baby, oh but Christmas is coming and I have people coming round.

Class A sociopath.

 

[artie]

Over 20 years ago I worked for the same company as a man who acquired a site and started to build a bungalow.
It started with the man who dug the foundations. they weren't dug properly. didn't pay in full
Concrete wasn't right, didn't pay in full.
And on and on it went until he left work under a cloud and I never saw or heard from him since.
But I imagine his MO remained the same.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Unwise move by the scaffolding contractor. The client can claim harassment and/or threatening behaviour. If the police did show up then they would just tell him to remove scaffolding and leave the premises. Far better to go to small claims or get a debt collection service.

 

[Essex Barn Workshop]

My family had a printing firm, and made a very official looking letter full of legalise (from google) that they sent late payers. It had a very good return rate!