Passing Cyclists in UK with a car Genuine help question

[glennkilshaw10]

Once again the UK government simply muddy the waters by changing the highway code in the name of " safety"
The change to the highway code is a guidance which can be referred to in the event of a criminal prosecution, so the police are highly unlikely to prosecute because you only left 1.2m to overtake but in the event of a serious accident if the investigation found you were not the advised distance away it would strengthen their case against you.
Let's face it anyone twisting their ankle and stumbling on the poorly repaired pavements could easily stumble 2m + their height..their head could be under the wheels...
Another example of legislation attempting to remove common sense from the average citizen. I drive a lorry and ride a bicycle, many cyclists annoy me, many lorry drivers annoy me as they lose sight of basic safety common sense and focus on whether they " were in the right or not "
Surely as human beings our first and foremost thought should be " what's the worst that could happen ? " and the most obvious answer to that is the soft squishy thing on the bike could come into contact with the big, fast moving heavy metal object and in this eventuality its of little comfort to anyone who was right or wrong ! I'd hope that living with the knowledge you'd killed someone is a bigger deterrent than 6 points on a license?
So personally...I reduce the risk of being a squishy thing by distancing myself from traffic, if that means slowing down and riding on empty pavements (stopping if pedestrians appear) that is what I'll do as assuming the big metal objects driver has seen me, knows the law or even cares whether he hits me or not is an express ticket to a+e or worse.
That doesn't mean I expect all bike riders to do the same, it's impractical for the lycra brigade but I admit I often question the thought process of a group cycling over woodhead in poor visibility relying on the fact the highway code says that the 42tonnes of metal has to give sufficient passing distance...
Sadly there's an element of the public too reliant on protection from harm by rules and regulations, there's also an element of the public that absolutely couldn't care less about rules and regulations...this fact alone should wake the 1st group up!! Reliance on a rule or law being upheld when there's nobody out there to police it could be seen as borderline lunacy...but I'm veering off on a tangent.
In response to the original post my personal advice would be how much room would you like any driver to afford the cyclist if it was your nearest and dearest??...forget the rule, the law...replace it with common sense...what's the worst that could happen?

 

[Lons]

Quick rant, but, I overtook, safely, a couple of cyclists then met another group I could not overtake safely. While I dawdled along waiting, the 1st cyclist attempted to pass my vehicle on the inside, by squeezing through a 1/2 meter gap between my car and the kerb. Where is my protection in law if he slips under my wheel when he can’t resist 2 tonne travelling at 17 mph?

That's one of the reasons I fitted front and rear dash cameras to our cars and I fitted additional holders to the motorhome and tow car. It's one of the best defences you can have against idiots trying the blame game - providing of course you don't act like one yourself.

 

[Jacob]

That's one of the reasons I fitted front and rear dash cameras to our cars and I fitted additional holders to the motorhome and tow car. It's one of the best defences you can have against idiots trying the blame game - providing of course you don't act like one yourself.

yes - could be self incriminating for a lot of the angry drivers on here!
Cyclists use Gopros a lot and report bad driving.

 

[Jacob]

Having read the usual for and against , as a cyclist, motorist and ex motorcyclist, the biggest factor in all this is time, no one leaves enough time to get from A to B

Round us we have several schools, the parents dropping off children often drive like complete idiots, race through gaps, park on double yellows or across gateways, speed by schools at ridiculous speeds and mostly due to being in a rush
(I would bet a great many of them could walk it quicker)

There are places around here where bollards have been placed to help pedestrians cross, but also cause a bottle neck, as a cyclist I have been nearly run down several times as drivers race to get by, only to slow down after as there are pedestrian lights then a fried egg roundabout

If people got up five minutes earlier, and allowed for the occasional hold up (cyclist, bin lorry etc) perhaps they wouldn't need to drive like Lewis Hamilton

So many cars dropping off at our local school that it's dangerous for kids to turn up on foot. They arrange a "walking bus" with kids meeting further up the village and moving in a highly visible organised column. On bike would be impossible.
Some parents drive from only short distance away in huge paramilitary SUVs! Should be banned.

 

[Jacob]

Ovrtaking cars on the right on a bicycle and then turning left in front of them sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen.

Filter down the left, and if there isn't enough room, wait like everyone else.

Cyclist may find themselves having to change lanes just like anybody else. Especially if the little inadequate cycle lane on the left is blocked by traffic.
These threads are tedious. These bleating drivers who can't cope with other road users maybe should consider handing in their licences.
The reasons there are so many rules and regulations around road use is that motor vehicles are lethal and most of their drivers are so utterly incompetent that they have to be licenced, insured, watched, tested, controlled, directed, regulated, for every inch of their journey. The signage alone must cost billions!

"In the year ending June 2022, there were an estimated: 1,760 fatalities in reported road collisions, a 4% decrease compared with year ending June 2019 (that is, pre-pandemic levels) 29,804 reported killed and seriously injured ( KSI ) casualties, a decrease of 6% compared with year ending June 2019".

"Whilst it is quite rare for pedestrians to be killed or seriously injured as a result of a cyclist dangerous driving – according to a parliamentary report published in 2020, there were only five reported pedestrian deaths involving a bicycle in 2019 as opposed to the 48 cyclists and 305 pedestrians killed by cars"

 

[Delwood]

Ovrtaking cars on the right on a bicycle and then turning left in front of them sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen.

Filter down the left, and if there isn't enough room, wait like everyone else.

Filter down the left in the lorry drivers blind spot or wait for the car passenger door to be flung open?

 

[selectortone]

Filter down the left in the lorry drivers blind spot or wait for the car passenger door to be flung open?

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

I still think the idea of a cyclist overtaking on the right and then turning left in front of a car is an accident waiting to happen.

Sadly, any discussions on this subject seem to rapidly morph into bitter drivers vs cyclists battles. Why is everyone in such a hurry?

 

[Jacob]

Filter down the left in the lorry drivers blind spot ....

The only person I know killed on a bike was in that spot and got crushed against railings. Not even moving, but the lorry was.

 

[sploo]

Round us we have several schools, the parents dropping off children often drive like complete idiots, race through gaps, park on double yellows or across gateways, speed by schools at ridiculous speeds and mostly due to being in a rush

The chap with whom I did my motorcycle training had a theory that there was nothing faster or more dangerous than a parent leaving a school after either dropping off or picking up their kid(s). He probably wasn't wrong

 

[stigg]

As a lifelong cyclist who has competed in races and time trials over the years and been on countless 'club' runs I would like to thank many of the comments above. Some are spot on. All groups of people have the requisite number of morons or whatever you want to call them, cyclists included, the difference being a moron behind the wheel is far more dangerous than one behind handlebars. I believe most would never behave the same way if they were not in their cars. It seems to change some people.
I really do feel that the situation has got worse over the years and I can't see it getting any better. Some of it is a genuine lack of awareness others seem to have a malicious intent. Riding over the past few years with my young son, it is truly shocking the behavior of some even when they can clearly see a child. It is a minority but it only takes one.
I could go on, and on... don't get me started about cycling lanes...

I think it shouldn't really matter what the legal requirements are or may not be. -although it is good to see some efforts in this area. If there is a PERSON on a bike, on their feet, on a horse, in a wheelchair etc etc it is your responsibility to negotiate the situation safely. That means waiting until it is safe to pass, and then giving enough room and passing at a suitable speed. (This includes if a bike is coming towards you on a narrow road).
Just be considerate.
I don't want to be a bitter cyclist, but I suppose I can't help it. I have a little more injected every time we go out.
We don't do as much road riding now partly because of the dangers. I really don't like my son going out on his own even though at his age I could go for miles. Shame really.
AND Breathe.
Dan

 

[stuckinthemud]

Most cyclists are also car drivers and vice versa, consequently it fascinates me these debates become so partisan. I have been runner, cyclist, motorcyclist, driver of several vehicle categories and agree the real point is that there are idiots on the roads- runners, skaters , scooters, motorcyclists, drivers, truckers. The one that scares me most is the guy I see commuting at 30mph in a 20 zone on an e-skateboard.
Of cyclists I find the most dangerous are the skilled riders- strong, fast, confident and always trying to beat their Strava pb- eye on time, ignoring hazards-it won’t happen. One of my coworkers was slipstreaming at 20 plus mph racing his friend when a pedestrian only saw one of the 2 cyclists and stepped into his front wheel . Reconstructive surgery and months off work. No car involved, just an idiot

 

[akirk]

It basically comes down to general selfishness - people seem to find it hard to see life from someone else's perspective...
Most cyclists / car drivers also use the other, so it has nothing to do with that, it is all to do with is someone self-centered or not - wouldn't surprise me if those folks are arrogant when in a car and when on a bike... there is no need for either - the general principle of the Highway Code (applies to both cyclists and car drivers) is use the road in a way which is safe for all road users - so it means give space as a car driver / don't abuse your use of the road as a cyclist - be considerate and if necessary pull over for cars to get past - common sense - think of others...

 

[Jacob]

.......
Of cyclists I find the most dangerous are the skilled riders- strong, fast, confident and always trying to beat their Strava pb- eye ........

The "most dangerous" of a group which is really not dangerous at all.
At least they are going as fast as they can - the general complaint from the anti cycling mob is about being slowed down by cyclists!
"Whilst it is quite rare for pedestrians to be killed or seriously injured as a result of a cyclist dangerous driving – according to a parliamentary report published in 2020, there were only five reported pedestrian deaths involving a bicycle in 2019 as opposed to the 48 cyclists and 305 pedestrians killed by cars" not to mention the 1,760 or more other deaths due to motor vehicles

 

[RogerS]

yes - could be self incriminating for a lot of the angry drivers on here!
Cyclists use Gopros a lot and report bad driving.

Jesus, Jacob...stop going on about how fabulous cyclists are. You're still like a broken record with the needle stuck in the groove. You've played the same old, same old for the last, what, 12 years ?

 

[Rewound]

Filter down the left in the lorry drivers blind spot or wait for the car passenger door to be flung open?

Failing grayling achieved tis in his role of Transport secretary - lol


seriously though, getting car doored is a thing, if you ever see a cyclist taking a wide berth of parked cars (passing to the right), they are not doing it to purposefully slow you down, they are keeping wide in case someone opens a door, cyclists have been killed with car doors knocking them into a car overtaking.

And many many cyclists have had horrible foul threatening abuse from impatient drivers for staying wide of parked cars -

 

[sploo]

The problem as I see it is that the speed/movement patterns of cars and bicycles are just fundamentally incompatible. If traffic is flowing then cyclists are slow and in the way of drivers. If traffic is heavy then cars are slow and in the way of cyclists. Even worse is when the road conditions flip between those two; as cars and cyclists are constantly overtaking/being overtaken and just generally getting in one another's way.

Ideally we'd have good separate cycle lanes everywhere; much more pleasant (and safe) for both sets of road users, but obviously that's a lot easier said than done.

 

[stigg]

depends on your definition of good separate cycle lanes. Most are a joke, downright dangerous and legitimize car ownership of the road - in the minds of some.

 

[Jacob]

The problem as I see it is that the speed/movement patterns of cars and bicycles are just fundamentally incompatible. If traffic is flowing then cyclists are slow and in the way of drivers. If traffic is heavy then cars are slow and in the way of cyclists. Even worse is when the road conditions flip between those two; as cars and cyclists are constantly overtaking/being overtaken and just generally getting in one another's way.

Ideally we'd have good separate cycle lanes everywhere; much more pleasant (and safe) for both sets of road users, but obviously that's a lot easier said than done.

The trouble is the roads everywhere have been converted to suit motor vehicles and many towns and villages are completely changed, not least the demolitions and the acres of tarmac now in every town centre. To propose separate cycle lanes is to finish off this takeover rather than to add anything constructive.
We need to reclaim the roads and other spaces.

 

[sploo]

depends on your definition of good separate cycle lanes. Most are a joke, downright dangerous and legitimize car ownership of the road - in the minds of some.

Absolutely. And even if there were good cycle lanes there will still be places where they need to cross roads, so problems would occur.

 

[sploo]

The trouble is the roads everywhere have been converted to suit motor vehicles and many towns and villages are completely changed, not least the demolitions and the acres of tarmac now in every town centre. To propose separate cycle lanes is to finish off this takeover rather than to add anything constructive.
We need to reclaim the roads and other spaces.

I'd agree if there were a practical/realistic alternative to cars.

I don't mind public transport; but I need it to leave from where I want it to leave, when I want it, and go to where I want it to go. That's called a car.

And I say that as someone who's "pro" green, and also a cyclist.