Passing Cyclists in UK with a car Genuine help question

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I'd agree if there were a practical/realistic alternative to cars.
Public transport, bikes, pedestrians, out of town parking for private cars.
I don't mind public transport; but I need it to leave from where I want it to leave, when I want it, and go to where I want it to go. That's called a car.
But everybody else wants this too and it is no longer possible in many places.
One big success has been pedestrianisation of various town centre areas and nobody in their right minds would reverse this - including the hordes of shop keepers who thought it might be the end for them.
 
Public transport, bikes, pedestrians, out of town parking for private cars.

But everybody else wants this too and it is no longer possible in many places.
One big success has been pedestrianisation of various town centre areas and nobody in their right minds would reverse this - including the hordes of shop keepers who thought it might be the end for them.
Yep, but none of that changes the reality of the practicality of cars for the majority.
 
The worst I have seen here in Derbyshire was a group of 12 or more cyclists riding in a block 3 side by side and a tailback of 10 lorries and more cars following no one could overtake safely so creates more and more frustration why can't the law makers see this?
cyclists riding 3 abreast would be about the width of a truck, two abreast would be the width of a car.

It is unusual for 3 to ride like that especially with roadies, who most of the time ride singly in training, taking turns to be the lead as the ones behind are shielded from the wind.
But even riding 2 abreast is perfectly legal.
 
I always check a new journey in terms of car vs public transport and have never found a trip that's more cost effective or convenient by public transport, unless I'm travelling from the suburbs into central London, then public transport wins hands down.

By coincidence I have been emailed today about a show at RHS Wisley which is 16 miles from where I live. They suggested, again coincidentally, that I might not want to bring my car, so I had a look.

By car - 32 miles round trip, travel time 40 minutes, cost £8.96
By public transport - travel time 3 hours 20 minutes, cost £23.00

What would you do?
 
cyclists riding 3 abreast would be about the width of a truck, two abreast would be the width of a car.

It is unusual for 3 to ride like that especially with roadies, who most of the time ride singly in training, taking turns to be the lead as the ones behind are shielded from the wind.
But even riding 2 abreast is perfectly legal.
There are many places in the country where it is not unusual... often completely blocking the road - let alone those who do time trials on public roads including taking blind bends on the wrong side of the road in a de-restricted (60mph) zone - sadly not unusual and it has ended in injury and death...

2 abreast is legal in some circumstances - not all - the law is quite clear that there are times to reduce that to single file...

it really is though a non argument - all the bad examples on either side of the debate are simply arrogant / selfish individuals being arrogant / selfish - it is the nature of the individual not necessarily the fact that they are a cyclist / driver...
 
Yep, but none of that changes the reality of the practicality of cars for the majority.
but that's a 14.7mph average speed. Imagine getting stuck behind that? No wonder drivers hate us. 😉 I suggest you get an aero bike and more lycra. You'll be really popular then. 😁
No, he would be just fine.

The first mile is suburban road, the next is 40mph 3 lane dual carriageway then the A3, 3 lanes at 50mph then the last 13 miles are 3 lanes at 70mph.

So plenty of room to allow 1.5 metres when passing.

He would be just fine. (y) :giggle:
 
2 abreast is legal in some circumstances - not all - the law is quite clear that there are times to reduce that to single file...
Its legal in ALL circumstances. See if you dont know, try not to guess.
Rule 66
"You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so."

I was crossing on a toucan crossing. And some old git in his car rolled down the window to berate me that it was against the law to ride across the crossing point.
He clearly hadnt a clue about the law and despite me telling him, repeatedly shook his head in disagreement.

Thats what we're faced with. People who clearly have no idea, but stoically stick to their wrong concept or notion rather than actually knowing the law.
Toucan crossing points are covered in the road traffic act 1988 -highlighted in the Highway code Rule 25.
 
No, he would be just fine.

The first mile is suburban road, the next is 40mph 3 lane dual carriageway then the A3, 3 lanes at 50mph then the last 13 miles are 3 lanes at 70mph.

So plenty of room to allow 1.5 metres when passing.

He would be just fine. (y) :giggle:
Having once - and only the once - ridden a section of a 70mph dual carriageway I would never, ever, want to do that again. Bl**dy terrifying being passed by HGVs at such high closing speeds. I wasn't a novice cyclist, and at the time was fit enough that we'd have been doing a decent speed... but it was not an experience I'd want to repeat.
 
Having once - and only the once - ridden a section of a 70mph dual carriageway I would never, ever, want to do that again. Bl**dy terrifying being passed by HGVs at such high closing speeds. I wasn't a novice cyclist, and at the time was fit enough that we'd have been doing a decent speed... but it was not an experience I'd want to repeat.
Have done it often and not as bad as you'd imagine as there's generally plenty of passing room and maybe a hard should.
Worst main roads are busy rural two lanes where stuff is belting past fast as there are no local junctions or other slowing down features. There was a bit of the A5 where I thought we'd die, but managed to turn off and go more cross country.
Some old main roads are fairly traffic free as it has been taken off by motorways e.g. A6 north of Preston seemed good, thanks to nearby M6
 
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Its legal in ALL circumstances. See if you dont know, try not to guess.
3 abreast is not per se illegal either, but inconsiderate or dangerous driving/cycling can be.
I doubt anybody has been in court for 3 abreast cycling - could be wrong.
Basically the impact of cycling on road transport generally is very insignificant, in spite of all the wittering and moaning in threads like this one!
 
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I always check a new journey in terms of car vs public transport and have never found a trip that's more cost effective or convenient by public transport, unless I'm travelling from the suburbs into central London, then public transport wins hands down.

By coincidence I have been emailed today about a show at RHS Wisley which is 16 miles from where I live. They suggested, again coincidentally, that I might not want to bring my car, so I had a look.

By car - 32 miles round trip, travel time 40 minutes, cost £8.96
By public transport - travel time 3 hours 20 minutes, cost £23.00

What would you do?
The cost per mile for a car in the U.K. is currently 47p so you car journey is actually £15.04, if you consider all the average costs of ownership. It also cost an extra £5.50 for entry at Wisley if you take a car. The total trip in the car for one person would be £20.54 so not so different in cost. Of course entry is free if you are an RHS member but if not the key factor is the travel time rather than the cost.
 
Have done it often and not as bad as you'd imagine as there's generally plenty of passing room and maybe a hard should.
I don't need to imagine it. I did it. Hence the point of the post.

HGVs rarely moved from lane 1, and to be fair with a closing speed delta of ~40mph they wouldn't have a huge amount of time to get space to move into lane 2.
 
Well you couldnt write the script, I got hit by a car yesterday/ Only just but their nearside wing mirror contacted my right *** cheek. On a B road with a cental lane marker, they just didnt pull out and there was nothing coming the other way. Did they stop. No. Driver behind checked I was OK as they passed me (thanks) Are some people afraid to cross the central (broken)white lines . Im all OK but just pissed off
 
Back to the rules😜.
An average carriageway is 12’ wide, and a car is approximately 8’, so assuming the cyclist is in the middle of the road, and the car overtakes on the opposite carriage, then this leaves a gap of at least 6’. However, if a cyclist is in against the lane divider (centre of the roa) say waiting to turn right, or cycling towards Turing right, the. Any vehicle coming in the opposite direction will pass with a gap of about 2’ a lot less than the advisory minimum of 5’.

Two cyclists riding side by side are likely to mean that leaving a 5’ gap is impossible when overtaking them. It also means that any oncoming vehicles will also breach the 5’ gap requirement. So, in summary passing any cyclists riding two abreast is probably possible. Riding Two abreast seems to me to be a recipe of either long tail backs or breaching the overtaking guidelines and tgere ire totally impractical on UK roads.

If a child needs a parent to guide them on a bike, and ride two abreast, it would suggest that they are two young and not sufficiently competent or knowledgeable to ride in the road. After all, all road users are required to know the Highway Code.
 
Its legal in ALL circumstances. See if you dont know, try not to guess.
Rule 66
"You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so."

I was crossing on a toucan crossing. And some old git in his car rolled down the window to berate me that it was against the law to ride across the crossing point.
He clearly hadnt a clue about the law and despite me telling him, repeatedly shook his head in disagreement.

Thats what we're faced with. People who clearly have no idea, but stoically stick to their wrong concept or notion rather than actually knowing the law.
Toucan crossing points are covered in the road traffic act 1988 -highlighted in the Highway code Rule 25.
and why there is conflict ;)

the highway code says, ‘you can’ where safe… and that sits alongside all the other requirements to be safe and not cause conflict - beholden on all road users…

if it is not safe then cyclists can / will be / have been held at fault for accidents… I can think of for example a 60mph stretch of road which is narrow enough and turns sharply over a hump-backed bridge so that two cyclists side by side there would not be safe and would cause conflict - as it is not safe, then the ‘you can’ in the highway code would not apply, therefore it would not be legal…

the bullish attitude of ‘the wording says x therefore we can always do y’ is a big part of what causes conflict on the roads, and exactly this approach of assuming that something is always allowed with no reference to the context is downright foolish if it puts vulnerable road users in danger - and regardless of hierarchy of road users, the starting point has to be safety and consideration for and by all…

I am a keen road user on both bike and by car, I have zero issue patiently waiting for cyclists, but I see as much arrogance from cyclists as car users… I also read and study highway code and underlying law with every change ;)

this is from the government’s own website explaining the recent changes:
The updated code explains that people cycling in groups:
  • should be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups
  • can ride 2 abreast - and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders
People cycling are asked to be aware of people driving behind them and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when it’s safe to do so.

key points: ‘can’ ride two abreast is conditional
’should’ be considerate of others is not conditional
the guidance still says that cyclists need to be aware of people driving behind and allow them to overtake when safe either by moving into single file or by stopping…

there is no option for cyclists who are bolshie, misquote the highway code out of context and stubbornly cause conflict by remaining two abreast… ;) I am sure that is not you, but you can see why the belief that it is always legal (and by implication cyclists can go everywhere side by side) will be a cause of conflict when it clearly doesn’t sit comfortably with the highway code

ultimately it is about safety and enjoying the road - all road users have an obligation to contribute to that, the issue is that we have seen a rise in legalistic road users, even those out to provoke / entrap others (esp. on camera), if all road users aim for consideration and patience we would have no issues
 
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I live in a nice village in Yorkshire which has a nice little deli/sandwich shop so we get more than our fair share of cyclists coming through.

My workshop is about 2 miles away and at least a couple of times a week I get stuck behind some cyclists, there is nowhere to overtake but plenty of places (driveways etc) they can pull to the side or even stop. I do find the more casual type always pull over to let me pass and give a friendly wave but the more serious type don't like doing this, they seem to get their head down and not worry about someone following them slowly for 2 miles. I know they have as much right to use the road as anybody else but I think this is just really bad manners.

There was recently one of those "near miss" type videos posted locally which was right outside my house. It was a car that pulled to the right to overtake a parked car and almost hit some cyclists which were overtaking him for which they shouted abuse and tried to shame him by posting the video clip. To anyone watching the clip it was obvious the car in question was just slowing to let the oncoming traffic through and then would pull out to overtake the parked car once the road ahead was clear but the cyclists instead of slowing behind him and following just swooped past him nearly hitting the front of his car as he started pulling forwards, totally their fault. Again it was the over keen type, a pack of about 10 who don't slow down for anything and treat the road as a race track.

It's not just the cyclists, we get the joggers in the middle of the road with their headphones on who don't even know your are there (even when you are right behind them) until you give them a friendly beep, and don't get me started on the motorbikes :rolleyes:
 
I live in a nice village in Yorkshire which has a nice little deli/sandwich shop so we get more than our fair share of cyclists coming through.

My workshop is about 2 miles away and at least a couple of times a week I get stuck behind some cyclists, there is nowhere to overtake but plenty of places (driveways etc) they can pull to the side or even stop. I do find the more casual type always pull over to let me pass and give a friendly wave but the more serious type don't like doing this, they seem to get their head down and not worry about someone following them slowly for 2 miles. I know they have as much right to use the road as anybody else but I think this is just really bad manners.

There was recently one of those "near miss" type videos posted locally which was right outside my house. It was a car that pulled to the right to overtake a parked car and almost hit some cyclists which were overtaking him for which they shouted abuse and tried to shame him by posting the video clip. To anyone watching the clip it was obvious the car in question was just slowing to let the oncoming traffic through and then would pull out to overtake the parked car once the road ahead was clear but the cyclists instead of slowing behind him and following just swooped past him nearly hitting the front of his car as he started pulling forwards, totally their fault. Again it was the over keen type, a pack of about 10 who don't slow down for anything and treat the road as a race track.
He should have seen them in his mirror and he should have signalled that he was pulling out?
It's not just the cyclists, we get the joggers in the middle of the road with their headphones on who don't even know your are there (even when you are right behind them) until you give them a friendly beep, and don't get me started on the motorbikes :rolleyes:
Stopping to let people pass obviously a good idea but if there's a lot of traffic the over frequent stopping and starting can make things difficult, particularly if you are going uphill and it takes an effort to get started again. Sometimes you have to put your head down and just pedal on
 
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