Oak picture rail joints

[Torx]

Hi All,

I’ve been tasked with installing an oak picture rail, it’s nice stuff and I’d like to do it right. I’ve only installed skirting / picture rails that would be painted before, but obviously this will require a little more care as any imperfections will stand out like a sore thumb.

There are only internal corners, presumably these should be scribed in as usual, just more carefully? Two of them are quite obtuse, which should be fun.

I’ll need to make 2 x joints in the length, presumably scarf? Is there any preferred technique on this sort of size, with the profile? Is glueing only acceptable or will I need to find room for dowels?

I’m ok with planes and chisels, especially on nice timber like this, if I take my time. I’d like to do this right rather than bodge it.

Intended final fixing method is some sort of builders adhesive plus minimal stainless screws with tapered plugs purchased from the supplier.

I’d love your thoughts if you have experience in this sort of thing.

 

[Torx]

Layout plan for comments...

 

[niall Y]

That looks like the way to go with this particular rail.
One has to be careful when when trimming the plugs, not to be over enthusiastic with the chisel and break them out below the surface.
To get the profile for scribing, one can first cut a normal mitre on one of the pieces, and use the profile left by the cut, as the outline of the scribe.

 

[Torx]

That looks like the way to go with this particular rail.
One has to be careful when when trimming the plugs, not to be over enthusiastic with the chisel and break them out below the surface.
To get the profile for scribing, one can first cut a normal mitre on one of the pieces, and use the profile left by the cut, as the outline of the scribe.

Thanks. It’s the scarf joints I really want to get right. What angle / length? What glue? Any reinforcement ie., dowels or fancy joinery?

 

[niall Y]

Thanks. It’s the scarf joints I really want to get right. What angle / length? What glue? Any reinforcement ie., dowels or fancy joinery?

A simple 45 degrees should suffice. A fixing in close proximity should pull the one piece nicely down onto the other. With your particular profile you could even use a half lap, as long as the bottom part is thin enough not to break through into the profile. PVA should be fine for the splice

There is a way of lengthening the pieces you are using, whilst still on the deck. If you have a piece of batten to hold both pieces against to ensure alignment and some polythene to stop the glue from sticking, you can super-glue the splice together. You can then carefully turn it over and stab a couple of' biscuits' in from the back, where the most meat is. This will reinforce the joint for handling and can be trimmed flush when the glue hardens

 

[Torx]

A simple 45 degrees should suffice. A fixing in close proximity should pull the one piece nicely down onto the other. With your particular profile you could even use a half lap, as long as the bottom part is thin enough not to break through into the profile. PVA should be fine for the splice

There is a way of lengthening the pieces you are using, whilst still on the deck. If you have a piece of batten to hold both pieces against to ensure alignment and some polythene to stop the glue from sticking, you can super-glue the splice together. You can then carefully turn it over and stab a couple of' biscuits' in from the back, where the most meat is. This will reinforce the joint for handling and can be trimmed flush when the glue hardens

Lap joint sounds like a good idea, and yes - I had planned to extend on the bench, otherwise it would probably all go wrong at the critical moment and end up a sticky mess.

 

[Doug71]

Think I would just mitre the two obtuse corners rather than scribing, maybe I'm just lazy

 

[Torx]

Think I would just mitre the two obtuse corners rather than scribing, maybe I'm just lazy

I’m open to laziness. Is it not done for expansion / contraction?

 

[JSW]

Yes. And very much a no-no

Edit. BTW, I'd reverse the butt and scribe in the top left hand corner, as it stands, any gap that may develop you are looking straight at as you enter the room. If you reverse it, you'd have to be stood on the far wall to see a gap. Just my twopennorth.

 

[Torx]

Yes. And very much a no-no

Edit. BTW, I'd reverse the butt and scribe in the top left hand corner, as it stands, any gap that may develop you are looking straight at as you enter the room. If you reverse it, you'd have to be stood on the far wall to see a gap. Just my twopennorth.

Good point, proposal accepted

 

[Torx]

The profile seems to be perfect for a lap joint, so I'll do it this way.

 

[toolsntat]

EDIT just seen previous post....

Are you cutting splices by hand?
If so allow enough length and overlap the two lengths vertically with a piece of board under the joint area.
Proceed to freehand cut the angle (I prefer roughly 30°) through both at t same time, as long as the cut is clean it will mate perfectly.
The 30° angle is great because longitudinal pressure is able to push against the two cut faces and stay put. Fraction proud and a swift thwack with hammer and block will have it seated lovely .
Cheers, Andy

 

[Torx]

EDIT just seen previous post....

Are you cutting splices by hand?
If so allow enough length and overlap the two lengths vertically with a piece of board under the joint area.
Proceed to freehand cut the angle (I prefer roughly 30°) through both at t same time, as long as the cut is clean it will mate perfectly.
The 30° angle is great because longitudinal pressure is able to push against the two cut faces and stay put. Fraction proud and a swift thwack with hammer and block will have it seated lovely .
Cheers, Andy

Nice technique though, definitely saving that one for future use!

 

[Torx]

I'll cut the lap with a mitre saw and tidy up the fit with chisels.

 

[Chubber]

I'll stick my neck out here and say a 45 degree scarf is insufficient as a slight opening will look like a short gap and gives little gluing surface. The minimum I think would be 6 : 1. (Length /thickness). Clamp back to back, one piece ending six times a thickness from the end of the other and plane both together. Put a couple of fine pins right through before gluing up, withdrawing them to glue and use to re-align. Remove finally when dry.

Sorry, slow in typing, alternative offered.

 

[The Bear]

My twopenneth
Your "scarf" joint, the angle really doesn't matter, I'd probably do 22.5 or 30, but 45 is fine. Join them with mitre bond in situ, trying to weald floppy profiles the width of a room up in the air doesn't work. Stick to wall with CT1 or similar and headless pins to hold while glue goes off. Pins won't be seen, plugs and screws far too fiddly to line up. Those 135 degree corners I would mitre - have a go at scribing a couple of offcuts, I guarantee its far harder than you think to do well and done badly looks aweful.

Mark

 

[BillHoughton]

One has to be careful when when trimming the plugs, not to be over enthusiastic with the chisel and break them out below the surface.

I usually hold the chisel bevel down, but with the edge held up off the work a bit, to knock off the bulk of the excess; and I look to see what direction the grain is, so I cut uphill. I finish, on flat surfaces, with the block plane, again working uphill to the grain. You might be able to use the plane on convex surfaces, or some delicate uphill paring with a sharp chisel.

 

[Phill05]

I was told to use 60 deg on scarf joints as you get better glue area.

 

[MikeJhn]

Perhaps handrail joiners if you have the depth/thickness could be useful:

 

[Doug71]

I said earlier in this thread that for ease I would mitre the 135 degree corners but to be honest I can't remember the last time I did an angled scribe so thought I would have a quick try to see how it would turn out.

I used a piece of MDF Torus architrave which is a similar mould to the picture rail in question (obviously much easier to cut), also cheated by using the mitre saw as much as possible.

I first cut the piece to be scribed at 45 degrees

I then cut the moulded part at 22.5 degrees to give me the scribe line

As part of this mould is square I could cheat and scribe that part with the mitre saw

Had to get the coping saw out for the moulded part though

Leaves you with something like this

It turned out okay and didn't take long........think I'd still mitre it though