Just about the only thing we agree on is the need for state housing
No Fault Evictions
- Thread starter Ozi
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Still wondering what your solution to people like him would be?
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Participation in society involves both rights and obligations.
The expectation the state will ultimately ensure a roof over your head brings with it the obligation to take reasonable care over that which is provided.
Those who knowingly and deliberately damage that which the state/society has entrusted to them are failing to meet their obligations. There needs to be tolerance for those undergoing particular stresses - mental illness, family breakdown etc - but such tolerance should not be unlimited.
Ultimately, if individuals fail in their obligations, society should withdraw support. Some will end up on the streets, non-UK nationals deported etc. Tough - yes, but the safety net exists to protect the vulnerable. It should not tolerate abuse, exploitation and feed an entitlement culture.
The expectation the state will ultimately ensure a roof over your head brings with it the obligation to take reasonable care over that which is provided.
Those who knowingly and deliberately damage that which the state/society has entrusted to them are failing to meet their obligations. There needs to be tolerance for those undergoing particular stresses - mental illness, family breakdown etc - but such tolerance should not be unlimited.
Ultimately, if individuals fail in their obligations, society should withdraw support. Some will end up on the streets, non-UK nationals deported etc. Tough - yes, but the safety net exists to protect the vulnerable. It should not tolerate abuse, exploitation and feed an entitlement culture.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
This may be to right wing or left wing depending on opinion.
I would like to see people who commit crimes forced to pay for the financial consequences. Whether damage to property or theft. If they don't have the money we should have workshops where a satisfactory hours work pays national minimum wage off the dept. how long they take to complete an hours work up to them
So how should state housing deal with these people?
As a landlord of leasehold properties I have a duty of care to other occupiers hence an obligation to evict a tenant who persistently intimidates the neighbors as do councils. Who then have a duty to rehouse. Leading to sink estates. Occasionally homes in these places are given to vulnerable people, I used to inspect disabled lifts and could tell some horror stories.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
QED
John Hughes01
Established Member
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Build simple hard to destroy council housing eg concrete walls and structure. Oops! I forgot you can't do that to anyone including scumbags. They have and always will be around. As a kid I delivered bread in my school holidays to "Dodge City". The scumbag element would chop up their internal doors for firewood and then demand that the council replace them - they knew what rights they had so council had no choice! All those years ago they experimented with putting baddies next door to nice old ladies who kept their gardens immaculate etc. Result. the baddies still hung bke tyres on the lamp posts and threw anything they no longer needed on to their front "lawn". The old ladt was moved as she could not cope. Does anyone remember the days when private landlords could not put the rent up once it was fixed. My father-in -law had a house over the road from where he lived and the tenant used to lounge by his front door shouting things like "When are you going to paint my house etc" while he was paying a pepercorn rent. Nothing changes
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Nutters are a fact of life and always will be!
Agent_zed
Established Member
I like this idea for the worst offenders. Then you apply a rewards system. If you are moved to one of these then your house is inspected weekly, if you trash the place it is inspected daily. If still not looked after services are restricted, lights go off after 10, electric only goes on for a few hours a day for washing machine etc.
Act like a child, be treated like a child.
Diver Fred
Established Member
Where I used to live the district council had 4 houses outside a village where they used to place the 'broken homes' people (that's the people who destroyed their homes expecting to be moved on). One of the company buildings was next door; the visiting Technician walked in one day to find a stranger in there in amongst the equipment racks to find this man lifting units out of the sockets! When accosted the stranger replied "It's OK, mate - we both work for the same people"; the stranger clearly didn't know what he was doing so the technician rang the police. That's when it started to get nasty but the police arrived in a matter of minutes which is when the Tech found out where the stranger lived - the house furthest away, he'd only been there less than a week having been arrested for breaking and entering at his previous location.
It also explained why there was lots of rubbish around the building that had appeared in the short timescale.
It also explained why there was lots of rubbish around the building that had appeared in the short timescale.
Agreed and the problem is the laws are being even more biased towards the nutters.
It is clear the majority of the too and fro in the thread are extrapolations, by both side, of the worse elements (nutters and slum landlords) as being the norm. What would be good is to see laws introduced to combat nutters and slum landlords with out impacting the 99% of good tenants and good landlords.
monster
Established Member
That's why landlords need the ability to evict.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
...and thereby make social problems worse.
But the thread is about no fault evictions, which obviously should not be possible.
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No it doesn’t. You have already made it clear private landlords don’t work for tenants with social problems who are better served by government so landlords evicting problem tenants actually push them to where they need to be. Sounds more like a win win than making social problems worse.
monster
Established Member
As we have explained to you, only a tiny fraction of those evicted using the 'No Fault' eviction process are in reality not at fault, landlords usually use 'No Fault' evictions to get rid of their 'At fault' tenants because it's a far easier eviction process.
The remaining small percentage of tenants who are evicted as genuine 'No fault' tenants will then usually be because the landlord need his property back to sell or maybe even to move back into himself. And this is a just and rightful reason for a genuine 'No Fault' eviction even though it may seem harsh on the tenant who in this instance clearly isn't at fault.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
No it is not.
If you have committed to providing people with homes you can't just change your mind and make people homeless. It's too important for such a casual attitude - you are in it for the duration! You are dealing with something which is fundamental to the quality of peoples' lives.
The housing crisis book to read is "The Property Lobby" by Bob Colenutt. You'd be pleased to hear that he doesn't put the small operator private landlord at the centre of the problem, just part of it. https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...ted-our-housing-crisis-heres-how-to-stop-them
Basically it's a massive speculatory bubble driven by excess wealth, unopposed by governments. I don't suppose anything will change under our new government. https://home.38degrees.org.uk/2024/04/23/renters-reform-mps-parliament/
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monster
Established Member
No one is suggesting 'a casual attitude' so not sure why you feel the need to state that....
If a landlord needs his property back then he has every right to have it back once the terms of the original contract have been met and after a sufficient notice period has been given.
If you remove this fundamental property right from landlords then you will have uneven greater shortage of rental homes on offer and its those that wish or need to rent who will suffer.
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