New Business tool buys... Table Saw or Tracksaw

[Pablo_WildWood]

Hi Everyone,

I could do with some help... I have started a business and gained some investment, I'll be spending most of it on tools, and I am currently weighing up how much I will actually need a tracksaw versus a table saw. I wont really be rip cutting much plywood in large sections so I am considering a table saw, mostly i'll be building upcycled pallet furniture and wooden clocks, also some chopping boards and some other homeware stuff. Anyone who feels like delving in with questions to ascertain what has the most long term use for me is very welcome. I have recently managed to source a thicknesser planer for only £150, which has meant that I am considering spending quite a bit more on the saw, I'm looking at the Bosch GCM 12 GDL 305mm mitre saw with the robotic arm, figure its a worthy investment as I plan to use it for years and years to come?

As far as the tracksaw goes I've got my eye on the Festool Circular Plunge saw TS 55 with a rail. Im just not sure how much I would need it as I'm not going to be doing much site work, comments welcome.

P

 

[marcros]

the tracksaw doesnt seem suited to the operations that you have described.it would be useful to see some of the items that you have in mind to make but a tracksaw is almost certainly not the tool that you need

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Sorry, but I feel sorry for the people who've invested in you.

 

[RossJarvis]

I'd have to say that it's very difficult recommending any tools to anyone as these really depend on what you end up doing and you end up doing what you have tools for!

Quite frankly, a tracksaw system in a shed could cover many eventualities or you could spend months learning to use handsaws and chisels and planes.

Personally I can't see much difference between a table saw and a tracksaw, as all that's happening is you're turning the action up the other way and a circular saw can have a lot more uses. In fact a track saw is a lot better tool than a table saw... apart from when a table saw is a better tool.

In my world my Mafell saw is a bloody good tool....when being paid to cut wood up... however my Picasso brushes are much better when I'm paid to paint!

I'd recommend a KSS80 Mafell with a selection of Bosch FS rails for a lot of jobs as they'd replicate table and mitre saws and replace a lot of tools.

Ultimately I'd have to say that if you are starting to know what you're doing, you'll know what tools you'll need and get advice on the different makes, if you don't know the types of tools you'll need you need to learn more before buying any.

 

[MattRoberts]

I'm confused - you're looking to compare a table saw and a track saw, and you list a Bosch mitre saw against a festool track saw?

The bosch is arguably the best mitre saw you can get, but it's not a table saw?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes, I'm confused too. The Bosch is superb, but it does only one job, cross-cutting. It does that better than anything other tool I've ever used. But it's only cross-cutting.

I think you need to sit down and work out what operations you are going to be doing most. Ripping solid timber? Cutting up MDF and plywood? Making straight cuts? Cutting curves in thin stock? Cutting curves in thick stock?

All these operations are handled differently by different machines. I have a fairly well-equipped workshop, and I love all my machines. But if were starting from scratch, which you appear to be doing, a tablesaw (and my Xcalibur is superb) would not be at the top of my list. I'd go for a good bandsaw, a good tracksaw and a budget SCMS.

Just my 2p.

 

[Eric The Viking]

[Steve beat me to it, I see! I defer to his wise advice...]

A rail saw does what you might expect: it makes long, straight, accurate cuts in sheet materials (including kitchen worktops). You can crosscut with it, but it's not designed to do that, and it won't do it well without accessories (clamps, and something like an MFT), and you need to carefully support the rail for safety.

As Matt said, your post suggests you are confused about a table saw, and a mitre saw (some are "Sliding Compound Mitre Saws" (SCMS)).

Table saw:

Mitre saw:

Rail saw (AKA "plunge saw"):

Rail saws are NOT a good choice for rip-cutting natural wood. That's not to say you can't, but you get unpredictable results and with some rail saws it can be dangerous (my Makita, for example, has no riving knife).

Honestly, it does sound like you're rather new to all this. I don't want to dampen you enthusiasm, but these tools are dangerous (planer/thicknessers even more so). It might be a very good idea to get some formal training, so that you learn safe ways of working.

To come back to your question as to what to buy: Pallets are made of planks (boards) of natural timber. A rail saw is probably a poor choice for that purpose. You will need to cross-cut to length, and rip-cut to width. Mitre saws are intended for fast, accurate cross-cutting, and the weapon of choice in construction, where they are used for framing, fitting and roofing (lots of funny angles), all basically general carpentry and joinery (dimensioning lengths of natural timber). Table saws in that context are called "site saws", and those are a compromise between the functions of a table saw and portability.

"Yer acktuel table saw" will crosscut and rip natural timber, AND dimension sheet materials (for panels), so it's probably the most versatile, but versatile may not be the most productive: if you're doing one operation mostly, get a saw for that.

In all cases, pallet wood contains: steel nails, grit and other carp, timber treatments (nasty chemicals). You will need effective dust and chip extraction for your workshop machines, and probably a good supply of spare blades and planer knives, as you'll damage them on a regular basis. It might be worth getting a metal detector too, but I've yet to find a cost-effective one that's sensitive enough to find the tiny pieces that saw blades seem to be attracted to. I have three sets of planer knives, so that, if I do damage some, I can replace them and carry on without being held up much. Nothing worse than being stuck on a Saturday afternoon with a sawblade you can't use or replace.

And if you like music, and being able to see stuff, make sure you get good quality ear defenders and eye protection.

Regards,

E.

 

[Alexfn]

I want to second erics comment.

Please get some training from someone experienced in the use of these tools. Even a mitre saw can be dangerous to the untrained operator. I remember reading about someone doing some diy who had his hand off with one.


You really need to know the dos and donts and get some info on safe practice. Even some training to get confidence in using them safely.

Ignore the comments putting you down. we all have to start somewhere. Just make sure you know how to do so safely

Good luck on your venture

 

[skipdiver]

If you are sawing up mainly pallet wood, i'd definitely go for a tablesaw and chop saw. I have a track saw which i use for breaking down sheets to manageable sizes before heading to the tablesaw or bandsaw. May also b worth investing in a blade or two than can cut hidden nails without too much damage.

 

[Selwyn]

I'd go for a chainsaw. I cant see how you've managed to get the investment without any skills or experience or market

 

[deema]

I would save the money and buy a hard point hand saw, the amount of cutting from what you've described will be fairly minimal. Pallets are horrid things, and if you happen to miss a nail it ruins your day and the circular saw blade.

 

[Steve Maskery]

That's not bad advice, actually. And it will do wonders for your hand-tool skills.
Give it some consideration.

 

[Mark A]

A quality jigsaw would be a good starting point as they can break down pallets quickly and accurately, as well as cutting shapes (a lot of shabby chic stuff have hearts cut out). They're also one of the safest saws around and blades are really cheap. When I say quality I mean the likes of Bosch pro, DeWalt, Makita, Metabo etc. They all cut accurately enough for what you need, and shouldn't cost more than £120-£150. You could spend several times that on Festool and Mafell but it's not necessary for someone starting out.

Regarding Mitre Saws I would personally go for something cheaper. I'm sure the SuperBoschRobotArmSaw is lovely but again, it's not necessary. I've used the Bosch's baby brother (GCM800S) for the past six years and it's more than adequate. Only set me back £250 and the retailer included a free blade worth £25 as I asked nicely.

As for ripping timber, I would use a circular saw, either freehand (easy once you've had a bit of practice), or iin conjunction with a simple jig. Track saws are wonderful tools - I own two - but for someone starting a new venture it wouldn't be wise to splash out upwards of £400 on a fancy one. There are cheaper versions available, but for versatility you can't g wrong with a bog standard circular saw. The Evolution Rage saw can be had for £50 and the Erbauer 184mm Multipurpase blades from Screwfix only cost nine quid and work perfectly well. I bought three for one of my saws to cut up a load of 50mm box section and it worked great. Only when I finished did realise my saw exceeded the max. speed warning...

 

[heimlaga]

Honestly I am very concerned for the future of your business. You don't seem to have the slightest idea about how to actually produce anything and what tools to use. That isn't a good starting point for a money making venture.
Time to stop and think before it is too late. Otherwise you will end up with a bankrupt business and investors demanding payback.

Myself being pretty much where you are now business wise but with a very different background having worked professionally with carpentry and joinery I know that if you want to earn more than 20 pounds a week on woodwork you need to know bloody well what you are doing! It's the product that pays the bills.
Hence I am slowly building up an industrial production capacity using old machines that others discard and scrap yard materials. I know what I need and make my machines work the way I need for my range of products. I rekon this will be a good setup for money making.
A bloke who considers using a track saw for ripping pallet wood and doesn't know the difference between table saw and mitre saw is just not competent enough to make any money.

Now when that is said I think yoy shouldn't feel sad for this. Put your business up the creek for a year or two and get some proper professional training. Come back and start your business and succeed! If I could learn you can!

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Rail saws are NOT a good choice for rip-cutting natural wood. That's not to say you can't, but you get unpredictable results and with some rail saws it can be dangerous

Hmm, they are extremely good, if it's a quality tool designed for it. The TS55 he mentioned in his other post has a riving knife and I can assure you is capable of perfect rip cuts on any wood you care to mention. The finish and accuracy is flawless by any measure. I use mine for rip and cross cutting in all manner of stock from bog standard quarter sawn oak through to the most exotic hardwoods. I don't have a table saw, it replaces it for my needs.

Cheap tools are rubbish period, a cheap table saw would be just as poor as a cheap track saw.

I would be surprised if you're getting poor performance from a makita though. Absence of a riving knife is puzzling too.

 

[flh801978]

To the op
You posted a similar question last week in buying advice
No replies to the people who replied

 

[Eric The Viking]

Rail saws are NOT a good choice for rip-cutting natural wood. That's not to say you can't, but you get unpredictable results and with some rail saws it can be dangerous

Hmm, they are extremely good, if it's a quality tool designed for it. The TS55 he mentioned in his other post has a riving knife and I can assure you is capable of perfect rip cuts on any wood you care to mention. The finish and accuracy is flawless by any measure. I use mine for rip and cross cutting in all manner of stock from bog standard quarter sawn oak through to the most exotic hardwoods. I don't have a table saw, it replaces it for my needs.

I would be surprised if you're getting poor performance from a makita though. Absence of a riving knife is puzzling too.

It is certainly disappointing. As is the lack of a suitable ripping blade (needs to be 165mm dia.). I do have a ripping blade, from the Axminster range, BUT it has a too-thin saw plate, soboth the kerf and the blade edge come out wrong (the teeth re-cut the rubber strip - not good!). I could use a Festool blade, I suppose, which would have the right plate thickness and kerf.

The other point about using track saws for ripping, aside from the riving knife (and other saws do have one) is support for the rail. Of course you can physically rip with the saw,
but cutting stock that's narrower than the rail becomes awkward and to an extent dangerous, compared to a table saw - you have to add support for the rail on whatever surface you're cutting, and arrnage some way to clamp the rail and prevent the stock from moving too. And the clamps don't clamp the cutting edge of the rail, but almost at the back. So unless you faff about for ages arranging some way to hold the stock, you rely on the front rubber strip gripping sufficiently - any sawdust will make this a rather risky business.

If cutting man-made board, this doesn't matter half as much, as stock offcuts can support, etc. but with natural wood it can be quite difficult, more so if it's planed to an arbitrary size.

You also have issues supporting the offcut if making a long cut on trestles. And you need to be off the surface to get clamps in place - a Catch #22.

None of the above is an issue on a table saw or bandsaw (both with adequate support rollers either end).

I recently tried to trim 4.5m skirting (9" and 10" boards). It wasn't fun at all, although it was a nominally straight line (not scribed, obviously).

The one good thing, though is that you can easily make a ripping cut to any line - without need for a parallel edge, although you can do this on a bandsaw too,
and arguably more easily.

 

[DiscoStu]

I echo what a lot have said about working out requirements etc. I do wonder if an Evolution CSMS might be a good option as this will cut metal and wood and therefore should cope with pallets well. They are also pretty cheap. I'm sure they are not the finest but if you're using pallet wood then I'm guessing you're not looking for the finest quality.

I can't advice on table vs track as it's not clear what you need either for. I have both and both have their roles but I tend to use my track saw most, for sizing boards etc. I use my table saw for angle work and if I need to do lots of repeat dimension work such as drawer bases.


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