Narex Chisels - lots of photos

[Paul Chapman]

this discussion yesterday led me to finding the full Narex catalogue on Gogle. This confirms that all the blades are essentially the same

The blades are not all the same. The bevel sides of the cabinetmakers chisels are ground thinner than those of the bevel edge chisels, so they are more suitable for dovetailing.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[matthewwh]

Had a look at the returned set today and the grinding is no better or worse than any of them are or have ever been. The 4th photo does make them look like like a ploughed field but I reckon the 2nd and 3rd ones are probably more representative.

The Narex range are not about being the most deliciously wonderful chisels ever, they are about good steel, the right shape, comfortable and well balanced, consistently hardened and significantly cheaper than the AI's which is the next time all of these factors converge in a single range of chisels. Price plays a bigger role in some people's decision making process than others, but for a lot of folks getting very similar functionality indeed for less than half the price is attractive.

I do take your point about the stain on the handles (which are hornbeam - not beech) and we will shortly be having some made with a clear finish (same price) which I think will be very popular. They have also offered to polish the blades but after the debacle with Kirschen a few years back I thought we'd stick with ground and leave polished blades to the Germans who apparently love them. If anyone needs anything else from the extensive Narex range just pop me an email and I'll be happy to order it for you with our next shipment.

The Pfiels are very good chisels indeed, apart from the wedge shaped sides which will gradually grow the sides throughout their life. The Narex cabinetmakers are around 1mm all the way up, which is about as fine as you can get by machine but well within range of being dressed with a small diamond file at 45 degrees if you did need them finer.

The sides on the AI's are finer still at about half a mm, this is achievable because they are hand ground, freehand, like this:

No jigs or fixtures, just like the olden days but without the silicosis.

The backs on the AI's are also very good indeed and when drawn along a very fine stone should just allow the underside of the cutting edge to be polished whilst still being flat enough out of the packet to pare exhibition grade joinery. They harden them to within a hairs breadth of the optimum for O1 (RC61) and as long as you can get them back to the factory, they will happily regrind, sharpen or repair them as necessary for the rest of your life.

 

[scubadoo]

Had a look at the returned set today and the grinding is no better or worse than any of them are or have ever been. The 4th photo does make them look like like a ploughed field but I reckon the 2nd and 3rd ones are probably more representative.

I had a feeling you might :wink:

That's exactly what I said in my earlier posts, the photos/lighting exaggerate it but i think the tools would be more appealing to the market if the back and face were finished finer. You can feel the grooves if you run your fingernail along the surface.

I do take your point about the stain on the handles (which are hornbeam - not beech) and we will shortly be having some made with a clear finish (same price) which I think will be very popular.

That would be great to see. I actually like the logo and fonts used, makes them look a bit more modern and quite classy, it's just the terrible staining and cheap ferrule that ruined the look.

And again as I said before , I'm not saying that they're bad chisels, just that they didn't appeal to me and I'd happily pay a little more. Can't wait to see the ashley Iles that you're sending me and I hope the fact that I returned them and made a larger order at the same time shows that I'm not just being a PITA :lol: . For the money, they are very good tools and there isn't anything to compete without spending a few more pounds per chisel.

This is the first time I've used WSH and I have absolutely no complaints about the service you offer =D>

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Thanks, Matthew. I think that answers my question!

 

[scubadoo]

and as long as you can get them back to the factory, they will happily regrind, sharpen or repair them as necessary for the rest of your life.

That is pretty mind-blowing service in this day and age.

 

[Jacob]

and as long as you can get them back to the factory, they will happily regrind, sharpen or repair them as necessary for the rest of your life.

That is pretty mind-blowing service in this day and age.

Except if everybody did it they'd go bust or have to stop selling defective chisels or simply withdraw the offer.
It's called PR.
They also know that the cost of posting them both ways would make it cheaper to buy another chisel instead.
Or do they include postage both ways, in which case I might consider buying a complete set or the first time in my life! 2 sets in fact so that I could always have one set being sharpened without holding up the job.
Don't be taken in again by another load of flannel!

 

[Sawyer]

:lol: :lol: :lol: =D>

 

[Sawyer]

and as long as you can get them back to the factory, they will happily regrind, sharpen or repair them as necessary for the rest of your life.

That is pretty mind-blowing service in this day and age.

Except if everybody did it they'd go bust or have to stop selling defective chisels or simply withdraw the offer.
It's called PR.
They also know that the cost of posting them both ways would make it cheaper to buy another chisel instead.
Or do they include postage both ways, in which case I might consider buying a complete set or the first time in my life! 2 sets in fact so that I could always have one set being sharpened without holding up the job.
Don't be taken in again by another load of flannel!

Not dissimilar to a range of cheap Far Eastern tools available over here which proclaim 'Guaranteed Forever' on the packaging. :!:
One of these days, I'm almost tempted to take them up on the claim. 8)

 

[Jacob]

The Swiss think of everything, even an arrow to show which way to push :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: =D>

[/quote]I thought it was to indicate the pointy end, elf n safety gorn mad again.

 

[scubadoo]

and as long as you can get them back to the factory, they will happily regrind, sharpen or repair them as necessary for the rest of your life.

That is pretty mind-blowing service in this day and age.

Except if everybody did it they'd go bust or have to stop selling defective chisels or simply withdraw the offer.
It's called PR.
They also know that the cost of posting them both ways would make it cheaper to buy another chisel instead.
Or do they include postage both ways, in which case I might consider buying a complete set or the first time in my life! 2 sets in fact so that I could always have one set being sharpened without holding up the job.
Don't be taken in again by another load of flannel!

It costs about £7 to send a set of 6 or 7 chisels first class, about £9 if yo want it recorded. So I reckon that's a pretty good deal if anyone wants to do it. As long as they're ALL knackered at the same time that is!

I would exactly call that flannel, maybe someone's just being a bit grumpy this morning :wink:

 

[Jacob]

They are never going to need repairing, and anybody who can't regrind and hone a chisel isn't likely to be using them in the first place. It's flannel. Is it in writing BTW or is this just a one off bit of flannel which everybody will forget?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Ashley Isles do make their 'regrind' offer in writing. It's on the homepage of their website, anyway.

Jacob - out of interest, do you think that the ideal cabinetmaker's bench chisel is different to the ideal joiner's chisel? It just occurs to me that joiners are not often called upon to cut dovetails; most joinery work is mortice and tenon, sinks in door-frames for hinges and other square-edge work. Would most joiners prefer the stronger firmer chisels (the rectangular cross-section ones you never seem to see these days)? Is there a difference between the ideal joiner's bench chisel and the ideal site-work chisel?

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

But if they where like Triggar's broom, you could have a chisel for life :wink:

Pete

 

[Harbo]

Here's AI's Guarantee:

"Our Guarantee
Any goods manufactured by us found faulty in material
or edge keeping quality will be replaced unconditionally.
Any tool returned to us, which we have made,
we will regrind free of charge."

So what's wrong with that - there's no pleasing some people?

 

[Modernist]

Ashley Isles do make their 'regrind' offer in writing. It's on the homepage of their website, anyway.

Jacob - out of interest, do you think that the ideal cabinetmaker's bench chisel is different to the ideal joiner's chisel? It just occurs to me that joiners are not often called upon to cut dovetails; most joinery work is mortice and tenon, sinks in door-frames for hinges and other square-edge work. Would most joiners prefer the stronger firmer chisels (the rectangular cross-section ones you never seem to see these days)? Is there a difference between the ideal joiner's bench chisel and the ideal site-work chisel?

There is definitely a difference but mainly in the narrower widths. All AI blades are fine and thin for their width which is ideal for cabinet making but on say 10mm down they are a bit delicate for a severe bashing. On the wider widths I don't think it makes any difference.

 

[Noel]

Here's AI's Guarantee:

"Our Guarantee
Any goods manufactured by us found faulty in material
or edge keeping quality will be replaced unconditionally.
Any tool returned to us, which we have made,
we will regrind free of charge."

So what's wrong with that - there's no pleasing some people?

Depends on what standards are applied to "faulty in material" and "edge keeping quality"? There's hardly a BS or TUV or whatever standard for such things? It's mostly personal opinion and experience, no?
As for returning for a free regrind, who would be bothered?

 

[Jacob]

Ashley Isles do make their 'regrind' offer in writing. It's on the homepage of their website, anyway.

Jacob - out of interest, do you think that the ideal cabinetmaker's bench chisel is different to the ideal joiner's chisel? It just occurs to me that joiners are not often called upon to cut dovetails; most joinery work is mortice and tenon, sinks in door-frames for hinges and other square-edge work. Would most joiners prefer the stronger firmer chisels (the rectangular cross-section ones you never seem to see these days)? Is there a difference between the ideal joiner's bench chisel and the ideal site-work chisel?

Horses for courses obviously. You wouldn't expect to use little bevel edge 1/4" chisels on a building site, but you never know.

 

[Max Power]

As Noel says very few people would be inclined to send a chisel back for grinding. I did however send some specialist turning chisels back to Sorby that I bought off ebay and the previous owner had damaged the shaped ends of.
They did them foc and didnt even charge me for the return postage, thats what I call service =D>

 

[Alf]

As for returning for a free regrind, who would be bothered?

Well for some of the carving chisels, for a start, that'd be an offer worth having. Some of them are pretty diabolical to grind, and if you'd made a mess of it - or, woe betide, the edge was badly chipped - it might well be worth getting back to "factory settings". Dunno if AI do corner chisels, but there's a type that is absolutely no fun to grind too. It's a mistake to judge the value of the offer just because one's own experience might only encompass half a dozen basic bench chisels.

All told, AI don't have to make the offer, but they do. Good PR? Yeah. But why not? At least they're making an effort and not just throwing a piece of cheese with the corners knocked off at the market and calling it a "bevel edged chisel", like so many manufacturers of formerly good reputation.

 

[matthewwh]

Funnily enough there is a chippie who lives in the same village as the AI factory, he has two sets of their chisels that he keeps in buckets and has never sharpened any of them. If his chisels are blunt he just pops in and exchanges buckets on his way to work!

Admittedly it's rare to find someone who has problems with bevel edged chisels but I can see how it would be convenient for woodworking teachers to be able to pop all the chisels in the post at the beginning of the holdiays. For tools like incannel gouges, v-tools, corner chisels etc it's reassuring to be able to have a go at grinding them knowing that if you do make a pigs ear of it it's not the end of the world.

Brian,
The registered firmer chisels are more substantial if you need something you can give a bit of welly to.