Making large wooden garage door

[Ollie78]

Thanks Ollie

Your door looks brilliant, a cracking job. I’ll def incorporate those bird mouth joints into my braces too

So did you use through tenons on all the rails?

Cheers
Pete

Yes, full tenons on the rails and stiles. On the diagonal braces I think I did one large domino on each end, just to keep it flat during assembly.

 

[AJBaker]

I was going to say the same as @johnnyb about the braces.

Here is a door I did as example.
View attachment 196378View attachment 196379

You just make a little mdf jig to router the pocket out.

Does anyone know why the pictures don`t show in the body of the message I just inserted them as normal ??

Nice! What does the other side look like?

 

[Fitzroy]

I initially posted that "I think you need full through edged M&Ts on the four corners, ideally on all the joints but dominos on the other two would be a compromise. Big external doors are likely to 'bang' at least a few times during their life, when the wind grabs them they just go, and the forces during these events are huge with such a heavy door"

I then got thinking about the ledged and brace oak gate/side door I built a few years back. It has no frame and whilst it is much smaller (1.5m x 0.8m) it has slammed hundreds of times over the last few years to no visible ill effect. I think a lot of the strength comes from having every board attached to the ledge and braces. With floating boards I think you need full M&Ts at the corners but with a build as per AJBakers diagram dominos would likely suffice.

 

[HOJ]

I would be interested in his opinion?

The sizes @Doug71 references are close to where I would be, for a framed door, plus, I would be making this sort of thing for a paying client, so longevity and reliability in service would be my remit, and as such mortice and tenon construction would be my only option.

@Fitzroy's door is an ideal solution, you don't necessarily need a frame, as long as you build it well, as he certainly has.

Picture is easier to show (old one) how, in some cases, I fix my boards to the rails:




Screws are all in a groove cut in the rails then a beaded strip planted in to finish it off.

 

[Wilson joinery]

Yes, full tenons on the rails and stiles. On the diagonal braces I think I did one large domino on each end, just to keep it flat during assembly.

Thanks Ollie

 

[Wilson joinery]

I initially posted that "I think you need full through edged M&Ts on the four corners, ideally on all the joints but dominos on the other two would be a compromise. Big external doors are likely to 'bang' at least a few times during their life, when the wind grabs them they just go, and the forces during these events are huge with such a heavy door"

I then got thinking about the ledged and brace oak gate/side door I built a few years back. It has no frame and whilst it is much smaller (1.5m x 0.8m) it has slammed hundreds of times over the last few years to no visible ill effect. I think a lot of the strength comes from having every board attached to the ledge and braces. With floating boards I think you need full M&Ts at the corners but with a build as per AJBakers diagram dominos would likely suffice.

Hi Fitz

Just clicked the link to your ledge and brace door build, looks truly fantastic, I could only dream of making something that looks that good!

In that post I wasn’t quite sure what you meant by:

“The joint with the bottom ledge is open, in my mind to allow it to dry. The top joint I made as a socket, the braces are 22mm compared to 40mm ledges. The lower ledge was screwed to the upper brace as a template and then the socket routed out.” Any chance you could simplify for me .

Do you think all the dowels are necessary or was that mainly an alignment thing?

Cheers
Pete

 

[Wilson joinery]

The sizes @Doug71 references are close to where I would be, for a framed door, plus, I would be making this sort of thing for a paying client, so longevity and reliability in service would be my remit, and as such mortice and tenon construction would be my only option.

@Fitzroy's door is an ideal solution, you don't necessarily need a frame, as long as you build it well, as he certainly has.

Picture is easier to show (old one) how, in some cases, I fix my boards to the rails:

View attachment 196420
View attachment 196421

Screws are all in a groove cut in the rails then a beaded strip planted in to finish it off.

Thanks HOJ

That’s a really neat idea. As Fitz mentioned in his post there’s nothing worse than a plug snapping when chiselling down so this would avoid that and I imagine it’s probably quicker too. I’ll have to have a good rethink following all of this good advice and I’ll post a new design for any final comments!

Cheers
Pete

 

[Fitzroy]

Hi Fitz

Just clicked the link to your ledge and brace door build, looks truly fantastic, I could only dream of making something that looks that good!

In that post I wasn’t quite sure what you meant by:

“The joint with the bottom ledge is open, in my mind to allow it to dry. The top joint I made as a socket, the braces are 22mm compared to 40mm ledges. The lower ledge was screwed to the upper brace as a template and then the socket routed out.” Any chance you could simplify for me .

Do you think all the dowels are necessary or was that mainly an alignment thing?

Cheers
Pete

I’m an engineer by profession not a woodworker so most things I make are over thought. I don’t think all the dowels are needed, it was just an attempt to keep it all aligned as it moved during the seasons, I think sensible nail placement would do the same.

Rather than a birds mouth at the top of each brace the brace actually is recessed into a rebate/shallow mortice in the ledge. The idea was try and avoid water penetration into the end grain of the brace. Both sides of the gate are exposed to the elements.

Fitz

 

[Gus900]

Pete - I made these doors for my workshop a couple of years ago with 14 mm dominos, they have held up allright so far. The top and mid rails are 50 mm, the bottom one and brace 33-ish, all made from C24. Birdsmouth on the brace as per Bradshaw joinery, iirc

 

[Brtone]

Definitely through tenons, doesn’t take too long when you get going, and heavier section wood as said before. Will be nice when done.

 

[Lorenzl]

An interesting thread I was thinking about replacing my garage doors but it will probably be beyond my ability.
I am not using it for a garage at the moment and considered filling it in and having a large access door.

 

[Wilson joinery]

After looking through several woodworking books I’m wondering if there’s any benefit to a double through tendon or a haunched tenon? Does the haunch help to stop the joint moving in the plane of the tenon?

Also if I was to make the mortice with my domino, is it better/easier to round over the tenons or try and square up the mortice?

Cheers
Pete

 

[johnnyb]

With through tenons the idea is to get rid of the inevitable slack that arises from having to get the things in and out. So a round m and t doesn't allow a wedge(at least in the traditional way) personally I think braces are only effective in thinnish frames. And then only when carefully executed. Also dominoes have lasted OK when I've used them but it's had to know how much gap to leave in that t and g. And they swell much more toward the end of the maintenance cycle(3 or 4 years) just my obs.

 

[Inspector]

There is another way (it will offend the traditionalist) if you are going to paint the doors. Quality marine plywood sandwiched on either side by solid wood or plywood rails, stiles, braces and tongue and groove or shiplap. Just do the same to both sides of the plywood. There was a Fine Woodworking or Fine Homebuilding article on it years ago. You could put the two outsides together with pocket screws to hold them together for handling. Glue the three layers together using screws to pull them tight. Plug the screw heads. Keep them painted and they will outlast us all.

Pete

 

[HOJ]

@Inspector Pete's idea is very sound, I had forgotten I did something similar, for a job back in 2012, managed to dig out an old wip picture:



Basically a 25mm sheet of ply with glass apertures cut out then simply clad over with Cedar T & G strips, which were set to line up and match the the cladding on the rest of the garage, did one on the front as well but no pics of that but the same principal applied, I changed the hinges later on.

They are still going strong, they are just round the corner from where I live, so see them everyday on my way to the shop.