Lumber Question - Using Cupped Boards

[wcndave]

There seems to be a gap where I am, nobody sells this:

Instead I get this:

Apart from the sheer effort and hassle of dealing with extremely large pieces without industrial strength tooling, I have a lot of cupped boards.

The plan was to make some 30cm wide by 12-16mm thick boards that were to be used for drawer sides.
The raw stock is 34mm nominal, however i think the bottom of the sides are higher than the top of the middle in this board!

The only way I can see to use this as planned, is to rip down middle, get the board all planed and thicked, and then join them back together again.

Does anyone think that would be a bad idea strength wise? Any other suggestions to achieve what I am hoping?

Thanks guys, you're the best!


(You can read more about it here)

 

[Jacob]

Judging from the photo I would have thought you'd get 12 (if not 16) mm boards from that, if they are 34 thick. But cut to size (length / width) first (plus margin for error) before you start planing. Save straightest pieces for the longest lengths.

 

[cerdeira]

Hi.

Those boards are severely cupped. what species is it?

for drawer sides I would rip the planks in two and join them back together. with a bit of luck it would be hardly noticeable, besides they are hidden most of the time.

on a side note. if you want square edge boards you probably must buy imported timber. at least here in Portugal you only get waney edge for local species or when
the logs are processed locally by the mill which is rare. most of the imported species are already sawn and kiln dried at the origin country and they always come square edged (and in imperial thicknesses)

 

[Jacob]

......
The plan was to make some 30cm wide by 12-16mm thick boards that were to be used for drawer sides.
The raw stock is 34mm nominal, however i think the bottom of the sides are higher than the top of the middle in this board!.....

Doesn't look like that to me. It looks like approx 8mm dip which means taking a minimum of 16mm off overall to get a full width board 34 - 16 = 18mm. 12mm easy, 16 pushing it.
What finished width do you want?

 

[wcndave]

Thanks for replies,I still feel that getting 12 from 34 is a lot of wastage.

I am not concerned about people seeing it. Just that gluing 12mm board liked this may not have good strength...

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[wcndave]

The species is soft maple.

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[Jacob]

....
I am not concerned about people seeing it. Just that gluing 12mm board liked this may not have good strength.....

No prob if you do it properly.
I'd make up each piece - cut the board to sawn sizes, plane one face and one edge square, join with a rubbed glue joint, then plane to finished size. The main thing is to have a good fit between the boards and to flood both edges with glue.

 

[wcndave]

......
The plan was to make some 30cm wide by 12-16mm thick boards that were to be used for drawer sides.
The raw stock is 34mm nominal, however i think the bottom of the sides are higher than the top of the middle in this board!.....

Doesn't look like that to me.

I was exaggerating for the purposes of humour, which clearly failed ;-)

There must be a point at which glued up boards become too thin to hold, however if the glue really is stronger than the wood, then that time should be when the wood is to thin anyway... So I will have a try at ripping down middle and then dealing with them.

It means I didn't need such wide stock, and it occurs to me now that i can't get more than 26cm through my planer anway! *facepalm*

One other thing I have to think about is rough cutting. I understand that due to twist and cup, and hidden stresses that it's best to plane/thickness quite close to final dimension, rather than the entire board and then cut it up.

However due to snipe, I lose 15cm at each end. So then if i am doing drawer sides say 50cm, I lose 30 from 80, or 38%, and that's after all the rough milling.

So my thoughts now are to rip to width of course, however keep the straightest boards long, and only cross cut the badly bent ones, or where my final piece is larger, say 1m.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Jacob]

Always cut up close to finished size before starting to plane, unless the finished sizes are very short or narrow in which case you leave them together in short lengths say max 2 or 3 ft.

 

[wcndave]

Always cut up close to finished size before starting to plane, unless the finished sizes are very short or narrow in which case you leave them together in short lengths say max 2 or 3 ft.

But then I am looking at 40% wastage rough milling, and then 37% of the remaining, so final wastage of 62% odd... snipe really is a pain - each time i am thicknessing I get the urge to buy a drum sander... just to do the last mm.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe you have to deal with the snipe then. It certainly shouldn't be a cause of waste.
Cutting procedure as above is really important for reducing waste. Mainly because you have to take less off a short board to flatten/thickness it.

 

[wcndave]

I wasn't aware that anyone had come up with a way to eliminate snipe of a planer/thicknesser? Would be great if there was.

I remember a Steve Maskery video about reducing the effects, however for kitchen drawer sides I really want none on the finished pieces. I will have to revisit that video.

 

[Jacob]

I wasn't aware that anyone had come up with a way to eliminate snipe of a planer/thicknesser? Would be great if there was......

Main thing is to cut to size before planing - short means less snipe. Long pieces snipe less if they are supported in and out with rollers etc. Then there's adjustment to the machine and technique.
Failing all those it should be possible to remove snipe marks with a quick pass of hand plane or sanding hand/machine.
If your snipe is so bad you are cutting it off then things are very wrong!

 

[wcndave]

I'm using a scheppach HMS2600ci rather than a benchtop thicknesser. so there's got to be 14" support either side.
I do use rollers for long pieces, however just to stop them falling, so they are set a few mm lower than the beds.

not sure what one can do with machine and technique, you just stick em in one end and they comes out the other!

Ideally i want to avoid hand planing or sanding as 1) I am not very good at hand planing and 2) Time.

I have just sharpened my blades so I will try a few pieces of varying length to get some more scientific data.

 

[Jacob]

....
not sure what one can do with machine and technique, you just stick em in one end and they comes out the other!
Blade too high or too low and the workpiece can rise or fall from infeed to outfeed.

Lotsa possibilities
Tables out of alignment.
Roller pressure wrong (check for shavings getting in bearing housing on some models).
Cheap machines the tables might actually bend and spring back enough to leave a mark.
Other factors possible

Ideally i want to avoid hand planing or sanding as 1) I am not very good at hand planing

Unavoidable. Makes life a lot easier. Practice practice! Saves time in the end.

 

[wcndave]

Tables out of alignment.
Roller pressure wrong (check for shavings getting in bearing housing on some models).

It's one table though, so can't be that...

Unavoidable. Makes life a lot easier. Practice practice! Saves time in the end.

I do use hand planes a lot, just not for large flat and parallel surfaces... I know it's possible, but for certain items I'm more power tool than hand tool user. drawers would be one (barring the dovetail joints)

 

[Chrispy]

Can I just clear something up, you are surface planing this wood first then thicknessing aren't you? or just bunging it through the thicknesser warps-n-all?

 

[wcndave]

oh yes, plane one side first of course.

I thought snipe was ubiquitous, in project videos I see everyone cutting off snipe, and complaining about it?

 

[Jacob]

oh yes, plane one side first of course.

I thought snipe was ubiquitous, in project videos I see everyone cutting off snipe, and complaining about it?

Having snipe so bad you have to cut it off is incompetent and somewhat stupid!
If it's bad on the face side then it's likely to be reflected on the back when you thickness it. Removing it from the surfaced face (hand plane etc) should then give zero snipe through the thicknesser.

 

[wcndave]

What? (and thanks).

I ONLY have it when thicknessing, planed boards are fine, however it comes out the thicknesser with snipe.

I have seen everyone from Steve Maskery to Marc Spagnuolo talk about it, and strategies for getting around it etc...

I don't think they are incompetent.

if you have a 12" board that is 1m long, and you have snipe at each end, you are talking about hand planing a lot of surface, and a lot of us are not very good at getting large areas perfectly flat and parallel.

I don't really want to do that for 32 draws x 4 sides...