Keir Starmer

[spanner48]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyxeedx40d8o

Do what the Greeks do with Boat People from Turkey: put them back in their boat - with paddles, but without engne - in waters where the current will carry them to shore back in Turkey

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't know an Asda trainer from a D.J. Trump special edition, but I do wonder what the asylum seekers I met wanted with the 5 year old back-of-the-kitchen-junk-draw phones that they were desperate for.
Maybe it's a myth, like all the people who roll lip to food banks in BMWs. I don't know what it's like anywhere else, but my wife volunteers at the local food bank, and you can't just turn up. You have to be referred by social services. Doesn't make a newsworthy story, though.

It was explained to me by someone working with immigrants, that mobile phones become near essential survival machines in very many ways. Obvious when you think about it and old ones are cheap and adequate.
Had a weird experience 2016 we were cycling sea to sea St Bees head to Tynemouth, partly along Hadrians Wall. Visited Maryport museum and learned about the foreign Roman legions who had been here and left memorials, including Syrians and others. It was before the referendum and we were asking people what they thought about brexit. Nice little old lady in a cake shop went absolutely livid and started ranting "these Syrians they've all got mobile phones.....". I think it'd been headline news in a **** newspaper like the Daily Mail

 

[John Brown]

It was explained to me by someone working with immigrants, that mobile phones become near essential survival machines in very many ways. Obvious when you think about it and old ones are cheap and adequate.
Had a weird experience 2016 we were cycling sea to sea St Bees head to Tynemouth, partly along Hadrians Wall. Visited Maryport museum and learned about the foreign Roman legions who had been here and left memorials, including Syrians and others. It was before the referendum and we were asking people what they thought about brexit. Nice little old lady in a cake shop went absolutely livid and started ranting "these Syrians they've all got mobile phones.....".

My point is that most of the asylum seekers I encountered didn't arrive with phones.

 

[Jacob]

My point is that most of the asylum seekers I encountered didn't arrive with phones.

Yes but you said they were desperate for them. This would be for very good reasons - just being able to text back home etc.

 

[sploo]

Do what the Greeks do with Boat People from Turkey: put them back in their boat - without engne - in waters where the current will carry them to shore back in Turkey

Just because one nation breaks the law doesn't mean others should too.

 

[Jacob]

Do what the Greeks do with Boat People from Turkey: put them back in their boat - without engne - in waters where the current will carry them to shore back in Turkey

Why are you so frightened of immigrants?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm not frightened of immigrants. I'm worried that we can't cope with tens of millions of them.

 

[Spectric]

Visited Maryport museum and learned about the foreign Roman legions who had been here and left memorials, including Syrians and others.

The Roman infantry musuem https://romanarmymuseum.com/ is a really great experience to understand how the Romans functioned and don't forget Vindolander just down the road where the Indian regiment was based !

 

[spanner48]

Just because one nation breaks the law doesn't mean others should too.

If France does not allow boat people 'rescued' off their shores to be landed safely, who's breaking the law?

 

[spanner48]

Why are you so frightened of immigrants?

Because - unlike you - I've lived and worked in most of the countries they come from. And I did not appreciate the societies I was experiencing.

 

[Spectric]

Immigration only works along with integration, what you don't want is different areas of the Uk becoming ethnic sub groups that exist within the whole but are standalone entities that want to maintain their laws and traditions rather than follow UK values.

 

[Jacob]

Because - unlike you - I've lived and worked in most of the countries they come from. And I did not appreciate the societies I was experiencing.

They don't like it either, which is why they want to come here, surely this is glaringly obvious?
Good luck to them. Petty bureaucracy and a few racist riots must seem like nothing at all compared to what many of them have had to put up with.
It does seem that simple fear is behind racism and most of the conspiracy theories which get mentioned.
Let's face it; climate change, record hurricane levels, covid pandemics, mass vaccinations, mass population movements, collapsing public services, "socialism", house prices, .....etc etc are pretty alarming and not made any easier by obvious failure at government level.
But fear and crackpot explanations don't offer solutions, even if they are the first resort for many, as we see.
Changing the conversation - it should also be about irrational fear.

 

[Jacob]

Immigration only works along with integration, what you don't want is different areas of the Uk becoming ethnic sub groups

Another irrational fear! It hasn't happened anywhere. A higher ratio of immigrants in inner cities of course, where there is work and community. Not many boat people set their sights on getting set up in rural areas amongst the farmers and wealthy land owners. Buy a camel and join the local hunt?

that exist within the whole but are standalone entities that want to maintain their laws and traditions rather than follow UK values.

People come with their culture, for better or worse, most trying to escape it.
Not something to be afraid of - as we all know, they slowly integrate.
All our ancestors were immigrants at some point, maybe only a few generations for most of us.
PS Worse in USA - irrational fear/hysteria is generated by certain politicians. They've got Trump, we're lucky just to have Fartrage!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...threats-hurricane-conspiracies-misinformation

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

 

[sploo]

If France does not allow boat people 'rescued' off their shores to be landed safely, who's breaking the law?

If they're in international water it's moot, but even if you're currently in a boat in the national waters of a nation that doesn't give you the right to land (without permission).

 

[Jacob]

Fear of immigrants often seems higher in places where there are low numbers. Inner cities tend to be tolerant of their variegated neighbours.
Clacton looks like a perfect example; a run down town with poverty and high unemployment. Fartrage's 8th attempt to get a seat. The only place which would have him! Some unhappy and fearful people voting for a miserable example of an MP!
Seems he hasn't been seen much about town. No surprises there.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...knees-the-broken-uk-town-backing-nigel-farage

 

[Vulcan]

Immigration only works along with integration, what you don't want is different areas of the Uk becoming ethnic sub groups that exist within the whole but are standalone entities that want to maintain their laws and traditions rather than follow UK values.

Rotherham springs to mind. A place where the police were unwilling to apply the rule of law. And we know what happened there.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

People come with their culture, for better or worse, most trying to escape it.

escape it there and impose it here.

 

[Jacob]

Rotherham springs to mind. A place where the police were unwilling to apply the rule of law. And we know what happened there.

"Fifty-eight police officers, three police dogs and a police horse were injured in Rotherham as rioters broke into the hotel, which was housing 240 asylum seekers, and tried to set fire to it. 22 Aug 2024"
Yes we know what happened there - very rare events and unfortunately immigrants are also prone to crime just as much as the rest of the population. Police failure, presumably they've been trained up a bit more since.
"The Home Office commissioned a study of the available data in 2020 . It said: "The academic literature highlights significant limitations to what can be said about links between ethnicity and this form of offending." "Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white." - because there are simply more of them I guess

 

[John Brown]

Another irrational fear! It hasn't happened anywhere. A higher ratio of immigrants in inner cities of course, where there is work and community. Not many boat people set their sights on getting set up in rural areas amongst the farmers and wealthy land owners. Buy a camel and join the local hunt?

People come with their culture, for better or worse, most trying to escape it.
Not something to be afraid of - as we all know, they slowly integrate.
All our ancestors were immigrants at some point, maybe only a few generations for most of us.
PS Worse in USA - irrational fear/hysteria is generated by certain politicians. They've got Trump, we're lucky just to have Fartrage!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...threats-hurricane-conspiracies-misinformation

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

The article about meteorologists receiving death threats from people accusing them of creating and controlling the hurricanes truly is mind-blowing, and very scary.

 

[RobinBHM]

I'm not frightened of immigrants. I'm worried that we can't cope with tens of millions of them.

Clearly you are frightened of immigrants….otherwise why the need to exaggerate the numbers.

29,000 arrived by small boat last year, not 10s of millions.