Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild (Round 2)

[kaiten]

@deema , thanks a lot for the closeup shot of the safety nut. I get it, and have reassembled the column according to this. No crane in the shop made the wheelhead carrier handling pretty funny. Care was obviously necessary to prevent damaging the restored column roller guides when dropping the carrier casting int othe wheelhead coolumn. Individual parts are quite heavy and sturdy for such a compact machine, which is after all a very good thing that accounts for its superb reputation.
I see your rebuild goes along nicely too ;-) I will post a couple shots soon.
Cheers,

 

[john brace]

The last bit I have to do before putting the table arrangement back together is to sort out the cross slide lead screw. Mine is completely worn out. There is over 3mm of backlash! not bad for a machine that has a handle indented in thousands of an inch.
The obligatory schematic

View attachment 113513
Replacements are available
View attachment 113514

However, they are eye watering expensive, I’ve been quoted £681 delivered including VAT. I will have a look at making a new one, but I am bracing myself that I might need to buy one!

So this is what it looked like when I fished it out of the machine.
View attachment 113515View attachment 113516View attachment 113517View attachment 113518View attachment 113519View attachment 113520
Its clear that it hadn’t been lubricated in a very long time and grime had just built up and worn the bronze nut and the Acme thread away.

I found one for 620 still to.much so got a screw and bronze nut for 90.00

The last bit I have to do before putting the table arrangement back together is to sort out the cross slide lead screw. Mine is completely worn out. There is over 3mm of backlash! not bad for a machine that has a handle indented in thousands of an inch.
The obligatory schematic

View attachment 113513
Replacements are available
View attachment 113514

However, they are eye watering expensive, I’ve been quoted £681 delivered including VAT. I will have a look at making a new one, but I am bracing myself that I might need to buy one!

So this is what it looked like when I fished it out of the machine.
View attachment 113515View attachment 113516View attachment 113517View attachment 113518View attachment 113519View attachment 113520
Its clear that it hadn’t been lubricated in a very long time and grime had just built up and worn the bronze nut and the Acme thread away.

 

[Stuart P]

Hi and thank you for this thread.

We have a 540 in work and I have been trying to locate the electrical wiring schematics to try and sort out a problem we have with it.
It works just fine until we plug the coolant tank in using the 7 pin plug. It keeps blowing the main fuses.
The coil for the contactor finally gave in and we couldn't get a replacement the same, so we have put a new contactor in and think this may be the problem but it could be how it has been wired. Want to clarify this first before paying out for an expensive obsolete replacement.

Can anyone help?

 

[Jackl123]

Hi there! Just about to replace cross feed screw and nut on a 540, if you have time could you possibly list disassembly steps to be able to access the nut for replacement? Can get a general idea from you photos and thread, but was just wondering what to remove/what to leave alone before accessing the nut. Thanks for any advice!

 

[john brace]

Hi there! Just about to replace cross feed screw and nut on a 540, if you have time could you possibly list disassembly steps to be able to access the nut for replacement? Can get a general idea from you photos and thread, but was just wondering what to remove/what to leave alone before accessing the nut. Thanks for any advice!

 

[john brace]

Well you start taking off the dial and all bits associated pretty easy then toke off electrical panel and guard behind it look up and you will see 4 cap head screws 7/32ALLEN key and a manifold in the middle of the two front bolts then remove the original screw lift table off heavy ish while under there undo hydraulic pipes noting where they came off you can now lift off cross table there are 2 dowels in the nut base tocan remove when c table is off I just bought a 22mm screw and nut and grafted it in original made new housing for nut cost 90 pounds beats 600 company's want then put it back together don't forget to take plates off either end of table and mind you don't bend piston rod good luck

 

[john brace]

Hi there! Just about to replace cross feed screw and nut on a 540, if you have time could you possibly list disassembly steps to be able to access the nut for replacement? Can get a general idea from you photos and thread, but was just wondering what to remove/what to leave alone before accessing the nut. Thanks for any advice!

I just sent some instructions how to replace screw if you need any help email me we can then chat [email protected]

 

[john brace]

I'm getting rid of our coolant tank free do you need one all works needs good steam clean

 

[Jackl123]

Thanks for the advice John, much appreciated. Sent you an email, if you are definitely letting go of your coolant tank we’ll take it please! Need one for our grinder. Let me know via email and can arrange collection no problem, cheers

 

[deema]

The next part to come off is the power feed system that raises and lowers the head. A power fed machine has all the same parts as a manual feed with just a motor and alternative handle arrangement being different. First the schematic.

The system is attached to the machine with just 4 bolts. However, the vertical screw has to be removed before these bolts can be removed and the system removed from the machine. This is the schematic for the screw.

To get the screw out, yoi need a few sizes of C spanner’s. First off drain the oil! There are three places where there is an oil reservoir. The bottom, the elbow and if you have a powered mechanism a sump around the handle. Part P is first to be removed followed by two nuts. You can then support the column and undo the nut that rides on the screw. It has two dowels it sits on so gentle tapping away from the nut itself will ease it odd. The screw will then just lift out.

 

[deema]

To remove the nut, there are just two bolts. There is a lower nut which is a safety nut, when the primary nut wears out it stops the head crashing down.

The screw hadn’t seen fresh oil in a long long time. It was completely covered in grinding past!

After cleaning these are the parts that make up the screw assembly. A thrust bearing, spacer and then the brass cog. The thread is slightly worn at one point, you can see it in the phot.

Measuring the thickest land of the thread and the thinnest using a gear gauge

The thickest land is 81 thou wide and the thinnest 25 thou less. That’s a fair bit! However, I’m not going to change it. I’ve decided that almost immediately the screw will wear, and for accurate results either a DRO or a clock will be used to descend the head onto the workpiece. The screw isn’t worn sufficiently to cause me concern that it will fail in my usage. The measurement shown is on the thinnest land.

 

[deema]

I love the engineering that went into these machines. The detail of what they did is brilliant.
Looking up into the worm gear, which is directly under the screw and which drives it. Firstly they added a brass bush for the screw to sit in, its a friction fit but replaceable.

Looking at the top of this bush, more excellent engineering. The screw is lubricated at the top, this drops down the thread, lubricated the thrust bearing bearing being captured by the two slits which align with spiral grooves in the bush to lubricate the full system. If you don’t oil the screw not only will you destroy the screw but also the thrust bearing and the bush.

Taking the cover off the elbow reveals two gears. Not just any gears, although they are running in a bath of oil they have made one out of steel and one out of brass. Dissimilar metals and one a natural bearing material. Now, we do not make machines with this quality any more.

The elbow gasket is missing in mine and some form of RTV has been used. I will replace it with grey RTV.

 

[deema]

Taking apart the power clutch mechanism and the control electrics. First the schematic

 

[deema]

Opening up the clutch assembly which sits in a bath of oil. The first picture shows the cover with the oiling port, excess oil flows down into the elbow / worm gear and will cause it to over flow. Not an issue in the days where spilled oil on the floor was just an inconvenienc!!

The clutch isn’t a clutch in the normal sense, it doesn’t use friction plates. It uses two discs with a peg that links the two togethe. You have to move the head up or down until the peg aligns with the slot.

A tad over engineered!

 

[deema]

The control lever actuates firstly a relay that activates the switches and then by moving it back or forward engages the motor to raise or lower the head. Again insanely over engineered!

This is the cover over the micro switches.

and the microswitches…..still need a lot of cleaning!

 

[deema]

A bit of cleaning and disassembly.

The highlighted contactor is what acetates the two micro switches. It uses two rollers on a cam to push the switch! The cam enables the rollers to make contact precisely when the lever is moved upward sufficiently

 

[deema]

Removing the cover over the actuating lever gains access to the microswitches. The microswitches are highlighted.

Again. Lots of cleaning still needed.

The actuation lever in the photo has been disconnected but still present. It’s held on by a pin held by a grub screw.

 

[deema]

We are into the final straight of what I’m going to tear down. The last thing is the raise and lower handle assembly. First the schematic

This is the simplist handle, and there are only two things to watch out for, these are the two spring loaded ball bearings that act as indents.

 

[deema]

The micro adjust wheel comes off first, this is held on by both a grub screw and a pin. However, befire taking it off, there is a grub screw on top of the handle which allows you to remove the spring and ball bearing.….carefully

Next the three screws release the indent disc.
In the centre of the main boss there are another three screws to remove the locking collar that secured the nut that holds the boss to the shaft. The nut is ‘loose’ as it sets the stiffness turning the handle.

With that off, you reveal the large cog that the micro adjust engages with. The micro adjust is also on an indent. I took it out careful not to lose the ball bearing.

I used a piece of 1/2” copper pipe with a 10mm solid bar in the centre to pop the ball bearing back in after cleaning and used the copper pipe to act as a guide for the shaft.

 

[deema]

So that’s it, I’ve finally got to the end of disassembly and cleaning of the machine. It’s taken a long time as there have been lots of other projects I’ve been involved with that have taken presidency. I still have to put bits back together and rewire it, but that shouldn’t take too long.
Taking one of these machine apart isn’t difficult, but they are covered in hydraulic oil and binding dust. It’s horrible, dirty and time consuming cleaning everything. I won’t be looking to do another of these machines any time soon!

If you want one, I would highly recommend stripping it as they definitely need it after any length of time being used. I can after doing it fully understand the high premium company’s charge for restoring these machines, it takes a number of man hours to accomplish.

I will when it’s finally complete post a final update.