US Election November 5th

[John Brown]

The economy is getting expensive under Biden. I live here, You just hear what the news lets You hear. We here hear a little more than that. 10 million illegal aliens tells Me what He thinks of Our country. I have heard several of Camilla's chats and think She would do better keeping Her Mouth shut. Trump would do better keeping His mouth shut also, but I believe His love of Our country makes His faults insignificant.

I can't read your post without imagining that you regard Trump and "Camilla"(very droll) as deities, what with all the capitalized pronouns.

 

[Delaney]

I can't read your post without imagining that you regard Trump and "Camilla"(very droll) as deities, what with all the capitalized pronouns.

Trump has never heard of you John.

Thats must hurt given how important you are.

 

[Chris152]

Yet under Trump, poor people had more opportunity.

What’s more important, your hurt sensibilities or real world outcomes?

My sensibilities aren't hurt, I find it fascinating, if rather worrying.

I was thinking about why I can't get my head around a society that thinks trump is 'presidential material' while I was fishing this evening - drizzle, quite a rough sea but very lovely.

It's really quite simple, I think.

Take a fundamentally consumerist society, where excess is evident at every turn - whether a result of excessive poverty or wealth - and where accumulation of wealth and/ or power is valued above all else; a society which sees itself in decline relative to other burgeoning super powers; mix that with a culture where truth is constantly dissolved in the face of 'alternative truths'; add in some scapegoats - immigrants, foreigners, communists etc - to tap in to deep-seated xenophobia or racism or whatever, in order to explain that decline. And so on (I was concentrating on the fish I wasn't catching, not sure where the misogyny, toxic masculinity, bullying etc comes in but it's there.) It's a kind of culture of illusion, a dream world invented to create profit and power. One that watches too much TV.

Now offer a figurehead, who appears to embody all that your culture has encouraged you to value and promises to do the same for you, to fix things, sort out your enemies, and to make you and yours 'great' again. It matters not that it's all based in so much nonsense, a fabrication, it gives you something to have faith in. With faith comes belief, and nothing's quite like belief for blinding us to reality.

I guess it's way more complex than that, but it looks like a culture and society that was waiting for trump to come along and continue the fantasies for people who can't see through them, and for the minority who, like him, can take advantage of them.

 

[Chris152]

Trump has never heard of you John.

Thats must hurt given how important you are.

I don't think trying to mock people is the way forward.

eta - tho it is one of mr trump's less endearing traits. interesting.

 

[Majimoto]

The economy is getting expensive under Biden. I live here, You just hear what the news lets You hear. We here hear a little more than that. 10 million illegal aliens tells Me what He thinks of Our country. I have heard several of Camilla's chats and think She would do better keeping Her Mouth shut. Trump would do better keeping His mouth shut also, but I believe His love of Our country makes His faults insignificant.

Trump has no love for anyone but himself. The very definition of Narcissism.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's along while since th U.S. had anyone who didn't come under that umbrella.

 

[Cabinetman]

Trump has no love for anyone but himself. The very definition of Narcissism.

I disagree, I’ve watched him, he really does care about the people and America you only have to look at his policies. Tough luck for the rest of the world, including the uk. I think if he was a Narcissist he would be trying to please everyone for the kudos. But no, he knows what needs to be done for his Country and sod the rest of us.

 

[John Brown]

Trump has never heard of you John.

Thats must hurt given how important you are.

He's never heard of most people, to be honest. He can't even remember the name of his doctor. He's heard of Hannibal Lecter, apparently.

 

[Delaney]

My sensibilities aren't hurt, I find it fascinating, if rather worrying.

I was thinking about why I can't get my head around a society that thinks trump is 'presidential material' while I was fishing this evening - drizzle, quite a rough sea but very lovely.

It's really quite simple, I think.

Take a fundamentally consumerist society, where excess is evident at every turn - whether a result of excessive poverty or wealth - and where accumulation of wealth and/ or power is valued above all else; a society which sees itself in decline relative to other burgeoning super powers; mix that with a culture where truth is constantly dissolved in the face of 'alternative truths'; add in some scapegoats - immigrants, foreigners, communists etc - to tap in to deep-seated xenophobia or racism or whatever, in order to explain that decline. And so on (I was concentrating on the fish I wasn't catching, not sure where the misogyny, toxic masculinity, bullying etc comes in but it's there.) It's a kind of culture of illusion, a dream world invented to create profit and power. One that watches too much TV.

Now offer a figurehead, who appears to embody all that your culture has encouraged you to value and promises to do the same for you, to fix things, sort out your enemies, and to make you and yours 'great' again. It matters not that it's all based in so much nonsense, a fabrication, it gives you something to have faith in. With faith comes belief, and nothing's quite like belief for blinding us to reality.

I guess it's way more complex than that, but it looks like a culture and society that was waiting for trump to come along and continue the fantasies for people who can't see through them, and for the minority who, like him, can take advantage of them.

With all due respect, I find this view point to be pretty conceited and I found it rather ugly to read.
We’ve hit a lot of buzzwords here and the usual ‘talking down’ many europeans like to do to Americans, or liberals like to do to conservatives.
I find all this rather sneering and preening very dull because it doesn’t care to look at outcomes.
All of the Trump haters here have something in common, an over inflated opinion of themselves, a somewhat gleeful distain for people who don’t think like them and an inability to marry what they claim to care about, with reality.

Trump made more poor people better off than almost any democrat president or administration. If you care about the plight of such people, as the O’Briens of this world claim to, then what does the rest really matter?
Ooo he said a word you didn’t like, he’s racist, yet minorities were better under Trump. In fact more voted for him in the second run than in modern history. They must be soooo stupid. I mean that’s what you think right? How could anyone think otherwise, given you literally just implied it
So what does that make you? After you’ve done talking down to 350 million people. You’re the better man here?

 

[John Brown]

With all due respect, I find this view point to be pretty conceited and I found it rather ugly to read.
We’ve hit a lot of buzzwords here and the usual ‘talking down’ many europeans like to do to Americans, or liberals like to do to conservatives.
I find all this rather sneering and preening very dull because it doesn’t care to look at outcomes.
All of the Trump haters here have something in common, an over inflated opinion of themselves, a somewhat gleeful distain for people who don’t think like them and an inability to marry what they claim to care about, with reality.

Trump made more poor people better off than almost any democrat president or administration. If you care about the plight of such people, as the O’Briens of this world claim to, then what does the rest really matter?
Ooo he said a word you didn’t like, he’s racist, yet minorities were better under Trump. In fact more voted for him in the second run than in modern history. They must be soooo stupid. I mean that’s what you think right? How could anyone think otherwise, given you literally just implied it
So what does that make you? After you’ve done talking down to 350 million people. You’re the better man here?

Well I have to say that I think that's total nonsense. But you are, of course, entitled to your own opinions.
Interestingly, I'm in the USA right now, and there seem to be hardly any Trump placards on display compared with four years ago. That may be down to other factors, I have no way of knowing.

 

[Chris152]

I found it rather ugly to read.

That's a shame, I quite enjoyed writing it. Tried to take on too much maybe, and I was a bit tired - I'll try harder next time.

 

[selectortone]

How the American bible belt can idolise a man with the morals of an alley cat baffles me.

 

[paulrbarnard]

the problem with Trump is international policy.

 

[DavidRa]

They don't seem too different to me.
Both are in satellite pieces of land and populations, attached to a larger more powerful state. As long as they act and behave in accordance with that larger neighbour, their lives will be relatively safe.
When the smaller state tries to break free of that control and or rebels, the consequences are the same.
One view relies on perception and bias, the other on reality.
John Mearsheimer is probably the most cogent voice on both conflicts.

I hope that fighting stops in both places, especially since we in the west are rapidly declining in numbers and can’t much afford to lose such large amounts of population, especially for political powers that don’t have anything to lose themselves; the USA.
Literally if Russia wins, the US will just shrug and focus on something else, meanwhile we’ll have an armed, battle ready and battle experienced Russia on our borders, as opposed to an unarmed Russian satellite.
This whole thing has been an utter disaster and has made us far less safe.
We could have let Russia take Ukraine and let Ukrainians emigrate into western Europe.
Instead we’re now responsible for nealry a million europeans being slaughtered, which js a deep, deep shame, on us as Europeans.
You could argue that Ukraine is fighting for its land but that land has been mostly bought by US corporations. They wouldn’t own it even if they win.
Europe needs to seek a more pragmatic path with it’s neighbour whilst seeking our own path forward as a wider European continent.

Of course all of this is pointless if we don’t start having more children. There won't be a Europe.

Can you elaborate on “land mostly bought by US” with some facts pls? Probably the same in every country with large corporate agribusiness so by that argument the UK should just roll over if invaded?

 

[Cabinetman]

Trump was annoyed that America was paying far more than anybody else in the NATO alliance and I don’t blame him, after all some of the country’s nearest to Russia were hardly spending anything. So when he said he wasn’t going to support it they all immediately started to spend more – not quite as stupid as some people make out.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I disagree, I’ve watched him, he really does care about the people and America you only have to look at his policies. Tough luck for the rest of the world, including the uk. I think if he was a Narcissist he would be trying to please everyone for the kudos. But no, he knows what needs to be done for his Country and sod the rest of us.

It’s interesting how we all have different perspectives and I know you split your time between the UK and US so will have a different insight.

My perception is that he’s guided entirely by self interest. What he’s offering is of short term appeal but the reality is a selfish US on the world stage won’t thrive in the long run.

I’d also say that Narcissists don’t try and please everyone. Their concern is how they look and rather than try to accommodate those who don’t hold them in high esteem they ignore or isolate them.

At the end of the day though it’s down to the good citizens of the USA to decide.

 

[paulrbarnard]

At the end of the day though it’s down to the good citizens of the USA to decide.

Part of the problem is that the citizens don’t get to decide. They simply get to chose between the candidates selected by a small political elite who selected the candidate they can best manipulate or control.

 

[Mike Fletcher]

I'm an American having lived in the UK for the past 34 years. I don't hear a lot of what goes on but through family and friends I get the feel of what American's are saying. One friend emailed me the following:

"When Biden decided to step aside, there was a very palpable feeling of relief. Joe is the opposite of evil, he just suffers from the inevitable, and was clearly not physically able to prosecute the case in this most important moment. Kamala can, and will.

Without getting into the weeds, one candidate is a former prosecutor, state Attorney General, U.S. Senator and Vice President. The other is an adjudicated rapist, fraud and felon who’s now the oldest person to ever run for president and unfit to serve in every way imaginable. My two cents, but you get the drift).

Difficult to argue!

 

[sploo]

I disagree, I’ve watched him, he really does care about the people and America you only have to look at his policies. Tough luck for the rest of the world, including the uk. I think if he was a Narcissist he would be trying to please everyone for the kudos. But no, he knows what needs to be done for his Country and sod the rest of us.

The man is basically a textbook definition of a malignant narcissist. His history (even way before became involved in politics) has been one of screwing other people over, dubious business practices, and constant infidelity. Regardless of his policies (claimed or real) I'd always be worried about giving power to someone with those personal traits. Even members of his own family have pointed out these issues.

 

[Majimoto]

How the American bible belt can idolise a man with the morals of an alley cat baffles me.

They hold their noses as long as he stacks the Supreme Court with ultra conservative judges. Abortion is anathema to them, and any means is justified to prevent it.