US Election November 5th

[sploo]

Here's a useful summary of what each of the main players in the Democratic Party did when they lost power in 2016 which seems to point to an acceptance that Trump won and doing all they could to ensure a smooth transition.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/13/politics/kfile-democrats-2016/index.html

I've asked you this before but you didn't give an explanation. How does people pointing out that they don't see Trump as representing their views and beliefs i.e the "he's not my president" differ from your comments posted on this forum about the current UK government? There's not much difference really and while I don't agree with a lot of what you say I wouldn't label you as disgusting.

I feel that a lot of what's going on is projection; people who would try to cause problems when a result doesn't go their way will assume that the other side would also behave like them - to the point that we now have people claiming to remember historic things that didn't happen (e.g. Democrats refusing to accept the outcome of the 2016 election). I sure don't remember any Capitol riots after Trump was elected...

 

[RobinBHM]

.....wish I had all that time, expertise ...& an unbiased oppion to do all that research.....

The Daily Mail must take a long time to read cover to cover

 

[RobinBHM]

If Trump loses, I shall enjoy the petulant man child tantrums

 

[ey_tony]

The idea that anyone has a neutral, unbiased opinion on such matters is silly - even the decision what to talk about, what to include and what to exclude, is itself a decision based on priorities, which are determined by particular values and thus bias. So we have to accept bias and argue within the parameters it sets.

I try to make my judgements and arguments based on fact and neutrality rather than tribalism or prejudice but I agree it can be difficult to argue a point without some inherent bias.
I'm not American and Trump or whoever wins the presidency will not be my president therefore I have no inherent voting bias as such but I can observe from an outsider's perspective of what is and has been happening in the USA and make a judgement based on what I've witnessed and I draw the same parallels with the Democrat's behaviour after Trumps presidential win and the behaviour of that of those who voted to remain in the 2016 referendum.

Neither group were willing to accept the other side's victory and continually fermented dissent and therefore I see the both groups as ant-democratic by failing to accept the result of a democratic vote.

It's over 8 years since the referendum but for many they will still not accept the results of the referendum...I'd argue they are what is wrong with the UK and I suspect the same applies to the USA.
When the losing side refuses to accept the result of a free and fair referendum/election then it indicates that those people do not believe in true democracy and merely pay lip service to it.
Other's may see it differently but before I voted in the referendum I was willing from the outset to accept the result of the referendum whatever the result.

 

[Blackswanwood]

If Trump loses, I shall enjoy the petulant man child tantrums

Although I hope he does lose I think that there is a real risk he may not. I think we may well see him win the electoral college vote and becoming President with Harris taking a record share of the popular vote.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I try to make my judgements and arguments based on fact and neutrality rather than tribalism or prejudice but I agree it can be difficult to argue a point without some inherent bias.
I'm not American and Trump or whoever wins the presidency will not be my president therefore I have no inherent voting bias as such but I can observe from an outsider's perspective of what is and has been happening in the USA and make a judgement based on what I've witnessed and I draw the same parallels with the Democrat's behaviour after Trumps presidential win and the behaviour of that of those who voted to remain in the 2016 referendum.

Neither group were willing to accept the other side's victory and continually fermented dissent and therefore I see the both groups as ant-democratic by failing to accept the result of a democratic vote.

It's over 8 years since the referendum but for many they will still not accept the results of the referendum...I'd argue they are what is wrong with the UK and I suspect the same applies to the USA.
When the losing side refuses to accept the result of a free and fair referendum/election then it indicates that those people do not believe in true democracy and merely pay lip service to it.
Other's may see it differently but before I voted in the referendum I was willing from the outset to accept the result of the referendum whatever the result.

That's a bit of a conflation and what-aboutery Tony as we're discussing the US election not Brexit. I take it you don't have any examples of things done by the Democrats in 2016 to demonstrate the veracity of your argument.

 

[RobinBHM]

I try to make my judgements and arguments based on fact and neutrality rather than tribalism or prejudice

Tony, what do you think are good things that left wing parties offer and good policies they have done.

 

[sploo]

I hate to say it Tony, but your posts on here are perfect examples of tribalism and prejudice.

This. Exactly this.

I mean, Tony's last post stated "I try to make my judgements and arguments based on fact and neutrality" then almost immediately repeated the debunked claim about "the Democrat's behaviour after Trumps presidential win"

As for Brexit; I've never heard of anyone not accepting the result of the vote. The issue is (was, and will always be) that the promises made were a fantasy, and continue to not exist.

 

[Agent_zed]

As far as I'm concerned they are no better than a corrupt third world political party that are less concerned about the nation and more concerned with being in power and their name alone is an oxymoron and an affront to true democracy.

Out of interest, did your unbiased media research include the recent hurricane coverage. You know where Trump was repeatedly saying that Joe Bidens government had done nothing for those effected states and had not contacted any of them, to the point that the republican state governors had to go on TV and publically state that they had indeed spoken to the President and had been offered federal support.

Trump helpfully built a nice podium from bricks from a smashed building to spout nonsense and lies. Very helpful, I'm sure that helps a lot of people.

In reality, the federal Government's response was actually considered very good. Although due to Trumps lies and that of other right wing nuts there were instances where FEMA was unable to assist because the locals had been convinced it was some plot to steal their property or some other insane lies, and threatened FEMA workers with firearms.

Although I guess if the Dems hadn't used their weather manipulation devices the hurricane would never have hit the red states. You know, just as Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican U.S. representative for Georgia's 14th congressional district says. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...reene-weather-control-hurricane-b2626699.html

But I'm sure you are aware of all of this and have factored it into your assessment of both parties.

 

[ey_tony]

Although I hope he does lose I think that there is a real risk he may not. I think we may well see him win the electoral college vote and becoming President with Harris taking a record share of the popular vote.

Why do you hope he loses?

 

[Chris152]

Why do you hope he loses?

See above.

 

[ey_tony]

That's a bit of a conflation and what-aboutery Tony as we're discussing the US election not Brexit. I take it you don't have any examples of things done by the Democrats in 2016 to demonstrate the veracity of your argument.

You just have to look no further than the behaviour of the Democratic Party and its supporters following Trump's win in the presidential election to see what a corrupt lot they were and unless there have been a huge changes then they still are.
Sorry but I don't need to go further than that...that's enough as far as I'm concerned.

As for all the labels that left wingers on here throw at Trump, I'll listen when they acknowledge that the Biden dynasty are also arguably a corrupt bunch of crooks but I don't hear those same people asking why isn't Joe Biden's druggy son in jail?
Sorry but the left wing arguments on here are mostly nonsense.

 

[ey_tony]

See above.

I asked him for his own reasons or am I not allowed to ask such questions?

 

[Jacob]

...
Not unlike those who refused to accept the outcome of the Brexit vote in the UK.

.....

What did they do about it? What exactly did they refuse to accept? How would you refuse to accept it?
I thought brexit was a grotesque mistake but I didn't "refuse to accept it" in any particular way.

 

[Jacob]

If Trump loses, I shall enjoy the petulant man child tantrums

Yes he puts on a good show. Cringemaking but hilarious.
I'm wondering about orangeing up for halloween.

 

[Jake]

I dunno, are there? If one group is likely to threaten that sort of thing, then the opposing group will quite likely do it too.

What a non-argument.

 

[Jake]

Oh good grief. You have some evidence of something that is anecdotal if we go with an earlier definition from RobinBHM that you have used to come to a conclusion that you believe to be true. It is a belief same as I have a belief that the Earth is round.
But here, my belief is that you have completely missed the point and I have another belief that you are unlikely to either understand the point or will refuse to accept it anyway.

I am not here to do your research for you. It is a fact that there are many right wing groups who are trying to foment a civil war, and some republicans have openly called for one if Trump loses.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Why do you hope he loses?

Because I don’t agree with him on a lot of things. Thinking it’s okay to grab women by their genitalia is perhaps the start of it.

 

[Jake]

or perhaps it shows that people who are more likely to support Trump are more likely to bet and therefore bet on him. His followers consistently spend their money buying his awful products - DJT media stock, Gold coins, NFTs, Gold trainers, bits of his clothing, Bibles, hats and a lot of other tat.

Ironically mostly made in China.

only 6 days to find out if those odds are worth it I guess.

There are sustained attempts to skew the betting odds, like the poll averages, because the appearance of momentum has a political value.

 

[Jacob]

I am not here to do your research for you. It is a fact that there are many right wing groups who are trying to foment a civil war, and some republicans have openly called for one if Trump loses.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/30/trump-threats-election-enemy-within