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Jacob":24x41upk said:
Eric The Viking":24x41upk said:
........ I had a friend here who worked for the Min of Ag. in the 1990s They had an entire department of 50+ people responsible for field counting (to comply with the CAP). And that was just the West of England bit. ........
There's a lot of this rumour stuff going about. As a rule I simply don't believe it - probably there will be a true story somewhere at the bottom of it which will be much more sensible, reasonable and less sensationalist.

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/eur ... a-z-index/

On precisely what basis can you infer or claim that this is a rumour ?

Fact 1 - Eric had a friend who worked for the Ministry of Agriculture in the 1990's.

Fact 2 - They had an entire department of 50+ people responsible for field counting to comply with CAP. It is a fact. I was on the IT development team supporting these users.

Just because you don't like the facts, there is no justification for trying to belittle them by claiming them as a rumour. That simply undermines all your other posts and puts their veracity in doubt.
 
1990s was deep history. I don't care what daft things were done back then as we cannot change it, what I am interested in is the future for my children and not compromising their opportunities.
 
Eric, thanks for that essay, one of the longest posts I've seen on the forum, at my typing rate that would have taken me all day. Although you do seems to have some inside knowledge I still find myself questioning some of you statements. For example single entry accounting and Excel ? Maybe some years ago, but now? really ? I'm open to evidence for this. Auditing, Accounts are 'signed off' but I guess the argument is what does that mean. The Auditors have reported significant errors (4% last time), these seem to be mainly due to failure to enforce the payment rules correctly. 80% of these payments are controlled by member states, not the commission.
Tobacco, It's true the producing areas are in receipt of EU funds by the single payment scheme or Regional development aid. I had heard most it was actually destroyed by burning.
Fisheries, well I have little memory of how this panned out at the time, Other than declining fish stocks I seem to recall the disagreement with Iceland was the first blow to the industry, but sure it was compounded by us joining the EU. However I have no comparative knowledge of how the fishing industry in other EU countries (Austria excepted) has faired in that time. Fishing stocks were declining long before this. I guess we did not have an equivalent right to grow our own tomatoes in Spain so we did come out badly. It's possible after a Brexit we may get out territorial waters back and be able to send the Spanish packing, but if we still want to trade then will we be able to do that. Do Norway have full control?
Bananas, here's the link http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:336:0023:0034:EN:PDF. It's 23 pages, the actual standards are about 3 pages, the rest supporting and explanatory notes, most of which could be applied to any fruit or veg with little change. There is no restriction on curvature, except to the point of deformity, which could be an indication of disease. I usually chose to buy Caribbean bananas, which are readily available in supermarkets. I recall it was the US that complained about EU preference for Caribbean producers.
Political Lies, these come from all quarters and the Brexit campaign is well up there at the moment.
Control of Industry. Any evidence that German Steel industry support is illegal under EU law? There is plenty of evidence that recently the EU has pushed to reduce dumping of unfairly subsidised Chinese steel and the UK has objected. EU governments took ownership of portions of the banking industry, illegal ? I don't think so.
Hinkley, Seem reasonable to ensure any subsidies paid are fair to the rest of the industry in Europe. Why didn;t we build it ourselves? We don't have the skills and there is much doubt about France or china having them either. Many would suggest that the deal is actually uncompetitive and the decision is being challenged again. Euatom is nothing to do with the EU.
" The vast majority of the protagonists advocating "Remain" have a direct personal interest in the outcome" And that doesn't apply to the other side?
 
AJB Temple":2f0qrrxo said:
1990s was deep history. I don't care what daft things were done back then as we cannot change it, what I am interested in is the future for my children and not compromising their opportunities.
Which is why we should leave. :D
 
RogerS":2nosrqpw said:
Jacob":2nosrqpw said:
Eric The Viking":2nosrqpw said:
........ I had a friend here who worked for the Min of Ag. in the 1990s They had an entire department of 50+ people responsible for field counting (to comply with the CAP). And that was just the West of England bit. ........
There's a lot of this rumour stuff going about. As a rule I simply don't believe it - probably there will be a true story somewhere at the bottom of it which will be much more sensible, reasonable and less sensationalist.

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/eur ... a-z-index/

On precisely what basis can you infer or claim that this is a rumour ?

Fact 1 - Eric had a friend who worked for the Ministry of Agriculture in the 1990's.

Fact 2 - They had an entire department of 50+ people responsible for field counting to comply with CAP. It is a fact. I was on the IT development team supporting these users.

Just because you don't like the facts, there is no justification for trying to belittle them by claiming them as a rumour. That simply undermines all your other posts and puts their veracity in doubt.
oo er!! :lol:

I can't argue with facts but I can argue with the interpretation viz. that this is evidence of fundamental deficiency in the EU and part of argument for Brexit.
Even if it was a shambles we all know that the EU, along with all bureaucratic institutions, is not perfect.
If we are IN then at least we have an influence over this sort of thing.
 
This of course is the problem - we've had little influence for the last 43 years and people for some reason think we're going to have more if we stay in. In actual fact we'll probably have even less, and we'll end up with the Euro and Schengen anyway.
 
Jacob":315jwkky said:
RogerS":315jwkky said:
.....

On precisely what basis can you infer or claim that this is a rumour ?

Fact 1 - Eric had a friend who worked for the Ministry of Agriculture in the 1990's.

Fact 2 - They had an entire department of 50+ people responsible for field counting to comply with CAP. It is a fact. I was on the IT development team supporting these users.

Just because you don't like the facts, there is no justification for trying to belittle them by claiming them as a rumour. That simply undermines all your other posts and puts their veracity in doubt.
oo er!! :lol:

I can't argue with facts but I can argue with the interpretation viz. that this is evidence of fundamental deficiency in the EU and part of argument for Brexit.
Even if it was a shambles we all know that the EU, along with all bureaucratic institutions, is not perfect.
If we are IN then at least we have an influence over this sort of thing.

Jacob - please stop back-pedalling. You weren't arguing with the interpretation because there was no interpretation. ETV was simply stating facts. By saying that "There's a lot of this rumour stuff going about. As a rule I simply don't believe it" you implied quite clearly that ETV was lying.

You can post all the smiley emoticons for all you like but calling a fellow member a liar is not on.
 
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