How scary are some tv shows...

[martlewis]

Am flicking through the hundreds of channels of rubbish on Sky TV and come across 252 Real Time Extra. The show's called Wood Works. Whilst wearing a pair of yellow gloves with rubber grip, B&Q £2.99'ish, I quote he says "I'm wearing gloves to protect my hands as I've removed the table saw guard for this cut". :shock:

Would love to see him after his fingers come into contact with the blade and see just how much protection those gloves really offer. I ripped a pair just pulling some ivy off a wall!

God help us if anyone is watching and takes his advice. Bring back Norm, all is forgiven. At least he uses a push stick when ripping 1" wide stock!

 

[mambo]

like i said in this post

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=14122

the man shouldnt be let loose on the viewing public :evil:

 

[Fecn]

I was watching some guy on the woodworking channel last night using his CMS with no kind of guard whatsoever - Makes the cut, collects the pieces with the blade still spinning and starts to organise them under the spinning blade of bloodshed whilst talking to the camera.

Even with Norm, I cringe whenver his thumbs get near that dado blade.

I always seem to cut myself on innocent thigns like rulers, hammers, sandpaper, doorkeys.... Unsurprisingly, I leave the safety guards on whenever I can... and sometimes I even add extra ones.

 

[martlewis]

like i said in this post

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=14122

the man shouldnt be let loose on the viewing public :evil:

Never seen him before, it was te quote about protecting his hands with a pair of gloves while the guard is removed that really got me angry.

 

[Dad]

iirc he didn't have any glasses on either for good measure...

 

[Shivers]

I was watching some guy on the woodworking channel last night using his CMS with no kind of guard whatsoever - Makes the cut, collects the pieces with the blade still spinning and starts to organise them under the spinning blade of bloodshed whilst talking to the camera.

Even with Norm, I cringe whenver his thumbs get near that dado blade.

I always seem to cut myself on innocent thigns like rulers, hammers, sandpaper, doorkeys.... Unsurprisingly, I leave the safety guards on whenever I can... and sometimes I even add extra ones.

Fact of life in the trade,luckily i have all ten digits & have never had an accident even after 24 yrs,prob the worst i've had is a severely bruised hand from a kickback(with pine),you'll find in most usa shops they operate without guards(riving knifes sometimes,although i think this is a bad idea for most situations),--believe it or not i found this more helpful as you have more clarity of the work being done,& therefore can control it better.Safety on a tablesaw has more to do with the techniques you employ vs the safety equipment on the machine,having said that--the spindle moulder is a different subject(this is a machine that can KILL you),having an open blade on a table saw is no big deal--it's all down to being sensible.when ever i did close cuts i would ALWAYS have some fingers riding along the ridge of a fence to prevent any chance of fingers being pulled in,being competent on a machine entails actually getting a feel for the machine or material---sometimes a pushstick or saftey item prevents this FEEL for the machine.I'll probably draw some flak for saying this --but hey i have all ten digits.

Having said all of this i gotta mention that quality of machine matters also there are few tablesaws i would attempt this with,only a good well made vibration free tablesaw will do,--i myself imagine that most tablesaw accidents happen on cheap contractor type machines --which besides being outright dangerous -rarely produce good work either.The vibrations & inaccuracies of these type of machine only enhance the probability of mishaps.

regards.

 

[martlewis]

He's at it again on tv, the man should be locked up. :shock:

 

[Scrit]

.......you'll find in most USA shops they operate without guards (riving knifes sometimes, although i think this is a bad idea for most situations),--believe it or not i found this more helpful as you have more clarity of the work being done,& therefore can control it better. Safety on a tablesaw has more to do with the techniques you employ vs the safety equipment on the machine

Sorry, but I think it's a might irresponsible to say that. You need both adequate guarding AND correct technique. Just because you haven't had an accident doesn't mean to say that you can continue without a guard and never have an accident - life just doesn't work that way. I haven't had an accident on the table saw, either, but I still try to ensure that it's properly guarded before use. I'd say that in almost all cases on a circular saw either the rip fence or the crosscut fence is guiding the material through the cut so the need to see what is happening is more perceived rather than actual (should I now don my helmet and shout "incoming!"? :lol: ). The same goes for many machine we use. I feel that it's probably more useful to listen and feel what is happening rather than see it as that is just as likely to warn you of impending problems. OK, I accept that you may want to look for chip out on the top surface of materials such as MFC and MF-MDF, but in reality most breakout occurs on the underside of the piece, where it can't be seen, or at the rear on crosscuts, which can be dealt with by the addition of a spelch board. If you really insist on seeing what is happening then the thing to do is replace your solid metal/opaque plastic crown guard with something just a tad more effective and which will allow you the visual stimulus you crave, such as this:

It's American, so note the complete lack of a riving knife :roll: (For anyone interested there is an article over at Badger Pond describing how to make this particular guard)

.......having said that--the spindle moulder is a different subject (this is a machine that can KILL you)

In the days of French cutters, slotted collars and square cutter blocks, yes. But they were all banned in 1974 so you won't find anyone using them any longer. It was the old-style tooling which generated the fearsome reputation the spindle moulder held - modern tooling has pretty much put paid to that. I have no qualms about using the spindle moulder, but maybe having racked-up of hours on them without an accident I'm being blase.

Rubber gloves for protection, though, that's a new one! maybe we should all resort to butcher's chain mail gloves? Yellow rubber coated, of course :wink:

Scrit

 

[Shivers]

.......you'll find in most USA shops they operate without guards (riving knifes sometimes, although i think this is a bad idea for most situations),--believe it or not i found this more helpful as you have more clarity of the work being done,& therefore can control it better. Safety on a tablesaw has more to do with the techniques you employ vs the safety equipment on the machine

Sorry, but I think it's a might irresponsible to say that. You need both adequate guarding AND correct technique. Just because you haven't had an accident doesn't mean to say that you can continue without a guard and never have an accident - life just doesn't work that way. I haven't had an accident on the table saw, either, but I still try to ensure that it's properly guarded before use. I'd say that in almost all cases on a circular saw either the rip fence or the crosscut fence is guiding the material through the cut so the need to see what is happening is more perceived rather than actual should I now don my helmet and shout "incoming!"? :lol: ). The same goes for many machine we use. I feel that it's probably more useful to listen and feel what is happening rather than see it as that is just as likely to warn you of impending problems. OK, I accept that you may want to look for chip out on the top surface of materials such as MFC and MF-MDF, but in reality most breakout occurs on the underside of the piece, where it can't be seen, or at the rear on crosscuts, which can be dealt with by the addition of a spelch board. If you really insist on seeing what is happening then the thing to do is replace your solid metal/opaque plastic crown guard with something just a tad more effective and which will allow you the visual stimulus you crave, such as this:

It's American, so note the complete lack of a riving knife :roll: (For anyone interested there is an article over at Badger Pond describing how to make this particular guard)

.......having said that--the spindle moulder is a different subject (this is a machine that can KILL you)

In the days of French cutters, slotted collars and square cutter blocks, yes. But they were all banned in 1974 so you won't find anyone using them any longer. It was the old-style tooling which generated the fearsome reputation the spindle moulder held - modern tooling has pretty much put paid to that. I have no qualms about using the spindle moulder, but maybe having racked-up of hours on them without an accident I'm being blase.

Rubber gloves for protection, though, that's a new one! maybe we should all resort to butcher's chain mail gloves? Yellow rubber coated, of course :wink:

Scrit

No helmut needed.
Agree some of what you said,i've used the guard in pic,& in a busy shop they don't last long--maladjustment usually gets them chewed up in no time,as for the spindle moulder & other guards,i suggest you consult usa companies & see what their pratices are,as they certainly aren't as safe as euro law dictates.I can't change the way companies operate,& i've found that all companies break safety law one way or another.As towards home hobbiests they should most certainly not take any risks with equipment.
regards.

 

[jonny boy]

Hello,
the quality and sharpness of blades and moulder tooling also dramatically reduces the risk of any kickback or grabbing of the workpiece. Any person who regularly uses spindles, knows the satisfying feeling of timber gliding through the cutterhead when using a new set of knives as opposed to forcing it through a dull set.
cheers,
Jon.

 

[martlewis]

Wasn't even the fact that he doesn't use guards that I was really getting at, but the fact he thought the gloves would protect his hands... yeah right.

 

[jonny boy]

I would have also thought that by wearing gloves, any slightest contact with the blade could even drag your hand further in!!
cheers,
jon.

 

[wrightclan]

I would have also thought that by wearing gloves, any slightest contact with the blade could even drag your hand further in!!
cheers,
jon.

Absolutely! :shock:

You should never wear gloves in the presence of spinning metal cutters.

Brad

 

[filsgreen]

It's funny :? I watched this guy butcher a so called "treasure chest". He just nailed on T&G and then proceeded to cut off the excess that was not required with a hand saw.

OK you may say, good use of hand tools instead of being Normesque, however it was manner in which he performed this. The guy is left handed and grips the piece he intends to cut off with his right hand and proceeds to cut with his left with blade blade right in line with his ******.

OK it was unlikely that he would have slipped but you never know... It just looked so amateurish, you would have to watch him to believe it.

Phil

 

[seaco]

I agree with alot here safety is paramount no piece of furniture is worth your fingers that's how I look at it now...

I am sitting here watching Wood Works and yes he does take chances we all do "no no's" now and again but to show this on TV to people who may not know better is wrong. I am watching the episode where's he's making a bed and again he is doing naughties yet again using a radial arm he's made a tenon by repeated cuts then the bits he's missed are removed by pulling the blade out and pulling the woods side ways across the blade...

Don't get me wrong I love woodwork proggies but safety must be shown as paramount in my opinion...

I feel better now... :wink:

 

[Uncle Spanky]

It's a real eye-opener to hear that most of the shops operate without the guards in place, and I know its an OSHA violation (safety standards board) over here. I've heard stories of people adding the guards back on the machines when the inspector comes around, but then removing them afterwards.

From the hobbiest perspective, I actually add in some extra guards to stay well away from the sharp pointy bits. I'm running with an over head guard on the table saw, and I feel better making cuts this way. I know my wife is just waiting for the yell from the garage, and trail of blood.

Powermatic and Sawstop have both introduced riving knives in their latest models for sale, so maybe we're learning some lessons.

 

[Shivers]

It's a real eye-opener to hear that most of the shops operate without the guards in place, and I know its an OSHA violation (safety standards board) over here. I've heard stories of people adding the guards back on the machines when the inspector comes around, but then removing them afterwards.

From the hobbiest perspective, I actually add in some extra guards to stay well away from the sharp pointy bits. I'm running with an over head guard on the table saw, and I feel better making cuts this way. I know my wife is just waiting for the yell from the garage, and trail of blood.

Powermatic and Sawstop have both introduced riving knives in their latest models for sale, so maybe we're learning some lessons.

The whole thing with osha is that business owners dont have to let them on the premises,they can refuse entry as long as they set up for another appointment,some big shops i worked in done this as common pratice,however when osha came back(usually in force)they would nitpick on all the small stuff,you are dead right about guards being put on for a half day during the visit then instantly removed as soon as they left.
When first living over there i used to have running battles with people over the riving knife being taken off,--i'd put it back on again --they would take it off 5 mins later--& i was mill foreman!!,i eventually gave up after i went to use a 7hp tablesaw & found the riving knife block loose & approaching the blade(i could hear a strange rattling & shut the machine down).
Regards.

 

[Losos]

As a general point with the table saw, what do you guys think of 'pulling' work through, by that I mean rip cuts on longish pieces.

Start of feeding in the conventional way, then walk to back and pull through. IMO this means any jams, kickback etc, and you are well out of the way. I can think of one disadvantage - unable to reach the NVR switch, but I happen to have a switch on a pillar near the back of the saw.

Is it a good idea :?: Or just plain stupid, BTW I haven't done it....... yet

 

[Shivers]

As a general point with the table saw, what do you guys think of 'pulling' work through, by that I mean rip cuts on longish pieces.

Start of feeding in the conventional way, then walk to back and pull through. IMO this means any jams, kickback etc, and you are well out of the way. I can think of one disadvantage - unable to reach the NVR switch, but I happen to have a switch on a pillar near the back of the saw.

Is it a good idea :?: Or just plain stupid, BTW I haven't done it....... yet

Thats a very big no no.--absolutely no control at all over the material.

regards

 

[Colin C]

As a general point with the table saw, what do you guys think of 'pulling' work through, by that I mean rip cuts on longish pieces.

Start of feeding in the conventional way, then walk to back and pull through. IMO this means any jams, kickback etc, and you are well out of the way. I can think of one disadvantage - unable to reach the NVR switch, but I happen to have a switch on a pillar near the back of the saw.

Is it a good idea :?: Or just plain stupid, BTW I haven't done it....... yet

I have done this before and think it is fairly safe as long as you are pull a long piece but dont do what I did and do it on a smaller piece ( I am lucky to still have the tops of the two fingers ) :shock: :roll: