Homeward bound...

[RogerM]

From my perspective,if the guy released,has nothing to look forward to, so becomes a jihadist and comes back and blows up some more citizens....somebody is going to have egg on his face.
On the Viet namm thing as I understand it,The LT. was told this was a cong stronghold.He was ordered to hit it and wipe it off the map.The reason it did not come to court was that he had it right and bigger heads were going to fall all the way to the top.When you are at war if you fail to obey an order you can be shot on the spot...he had no prior knowledge that this wasn`t a hard target.You be the judge,your men are being wiped out and you are sent in to clean out the opposition (Old Men an Women can fight wars in their own ways,and even the war going on now is fought around kids so as not to be hit with air strikes)So what would you do?Get shot for refusing an direct order?
He was put in a bad situation,an I truly believe he didn`t know it wasn`t a Viet Cong village.Everybody was looking the same and a lot of villages over there would support the other side and hide munitions for the fighters...My cousin was going to give chocolate to some kids on the corner,the kids threw battery acid in his friends face,scaring him for life.On another occasion a kid threw a hand grenade at the truck in a convoy.
I`ll take the wait and see what is going to happen...then give my verdict.

Sorry grinding One - "I was just obeying orders" has never been an excuse. The Allies didn't accept it from the Germans and Japs at Nuremburg, and it was clear that the court in the Calley case didn't accept it either because he was convicted. The point that I am making is that in both the Megrahi and Calley cases, they were found guilty of an atrocity in a court of law. In each case they were released by a politician - political reasons in the case of Calley, and both political and compassionate reasons in the case of Megrahi. Calley was a healthy 29 year old on his release just 3 days after his sentence was announced, and has enjoyed 38 years of freedom, and at age 66 may potentially enjoy many more. There was no doubt about his guilt. Megrahi has served 8 years in prison and is unlikely to be still here at Xmas.

My first reaction was that he should stay in prison, but the more I read, the more I started to question whether the right man had been convicted. Dr Jim Swire, who lost a daughter on Fl103 is the spokesman for the UK families, worked tirelessly to secure Megrahi's extradition from Libya for trial in the UK because he was convinced of his guilt. Having sat through the trial, he concluded that there were very real doubts about that guilt, and is now a supporter of his release. I think it far more likely that this was an Iranian sponsored act as revenge for the shooting down of a civilian airliner by a US warship with the loss of all on board.

Personally I think this was a very difficult call, and I'm glad that I didn't have to make it. Ultimately I guess that I'd rather be remembered for showing compassion to a dying man that doesn't deserve it than for denying it to someone who subsequently turns out to be innocent.

 

[lurker]

I'd just like to make a point that not long before Lockabie the USA navy shot down an Iranian (was it) Civil aircraft with huge loss of life.
.
Thes PAN AM crash was undoubtably linked. The chap was a convenient scapegoat for both sides.

I think Scotland's actions this past week were truely Christian, something the USA profess to be but rarely turn it into actions

Edit: Sorry I did not fully read the preceding post

 

[devonwoody]

I myself suspect that the pilot of the Iranian plane was a suicide bomber, he was in a combat zone and there was no time too negotiate by the naval commander.
And Libya has a reputation of terrorist weapons supply also to be taken into account.

 

[woodbloke]

From my perspective,if the guy released,has nothing to look forward to, so becomes a jihadist and comes back and blows up some more citizens....somebody is going to have egg on his face.
On the Viet namm thing as I understand it,The LT. was told this was a cong stronghold.He was ordered to hit it and wipe it off the map.The reason it did not come to court was that he had it right and bigger heads were going to fall all the way to the top.When you are at war if you fail to obey an order you can be shot on the spot...he had no prior knowledge that this wasn`t a hard target.You be the judge,your men are being wiped out and you are sent in to clean out the opposition (Old Men an Women can fight wars in their own ways,and even the war going on now is fought around kids so as not to be hit with air strikes)So what would you do?Get shot for refusing an direct order?
He was put in a bad situation,an I truly believe he didn`t know it wasn`t a Viet Cong village.Everybody was looking the same and a lot of villages over there would support the other side and hide munitions for the fighters...My cousin was going to give chocolate to some kids on the corner,the kids threw battery acid in his friends face,scaring him for life.On another occasion a kid threw a hand grenade at the truck in a convoy.
I`ll take the wait and see what is going to happen...then give my verdict.

Sorry grinding One - "I was just obeying orders" has never been an excuse. The Allies didn't accept it from the Germans and Japs at Nuremburg, and it was clear that the court in the Calley case didn't accept it either because he was convicted. The point that I am making is that in both the Megrahi and Calley cases, they were found guilty of an atrocity in a court of law. In each case they were released by a politician - political reasons in the case of Calley, and both political and compassionate reasons in the case of Megrahi. Calley was a healthy 29 year old on his release just 3 days after his sentence was announced, and has enjoyed 38 years of freedom, and at age 66 may potentially enjoy many more. There was no doubt about his guilt. Megrahi has served 8 years in prison and is unlikely to be still here at Xmas.

My first reaction was that he should stay in prison, but the more I read, the more I started to question whether the right man had been convicted. Dr Jim Swire, who lost a daughter on Fl103 is the spokesman for the UK families, worked tirelessly to secure Megrahi's extradition from Libya for trial in the UK because he was convinced of his guilt. Having sat through the trial, he concluded that there were very real doubts about that guilt, and is now a supporter of his release. I think it far more likely that this was an Iranian sponsored act as revenge for the shooting down of a civilian airliner by a US warship with the loss of all on board.

Personally I think this was a very difficult call, and I'm glad that I didn't have to make it. Ultimately I guess that I'd rather be remembered for showing compassion to a dying man that doesn't deserve it than for denying it to someone who subsequently turns out to be innocent.

Roger - eloquently put. As I said in an earlier post, there's probably far more to this than will ever publicly surface and it seems likely that Megrahi may not have been the bomber but was convicted none the less. That he should be released on compassionate grounds was probably the correct decision - Rob

 

[big soft moose]

Sorry grinding One - "I was just obeying orders" has never been an excuse. The Allies didn't accept it from the Germans and Japs at Nuremburg, and it was clear that the court in the Calley case didn't accept it either because he was convicted. The point that I am making is that in both the Megrahi and Calley cases, they were found guilty of an atrocity in a court of law. In each case they were released by a politician - political reasons in the case of Calley, and both political and compassionate reasons in the case of Megrahi. Calley was a healthy 29 year old on his release just 3 days after his sentence was announced, and has enjoyed 38 years of freedom, and at age 66 may potentially enjoy many more. There was no doubt about his guilt. Megrahi has served 8 years in prison and is unlikely to be still here at Xmas.

.

While i obviously dont condone what calleys platoon did at Mai Lai , there is sizeable doubt as to whether he himself actually commited mass murder or ordered it to be done. He was convicted under the UCMJ because an officer is responsible for the acts of his men whether he orders them or not - all he may have really been guilty of was losing control of his platoon, and that would be more of an indictment of the way the vietnam conflict was handled and whether he could have been expected to do more to stop this men from taking the actions they did.

I'm not saying that calley was a fine example of millitary officerdom but IMO nor is he comparable with a mass muderer like megrahi

That said i dont disagree that sending megrahi back was the right thing to do, as he is clearly terminal on one level it shows an act of compassion on the part of the scottish govt - and while it is true that he did not show similar compassion to the people of lockerbie, this shows that those taking the decision in scotland are better men than him.

Also looking at it cynically/pragmatically treating terminal cancer is expensive , so why should the scottish tax payer pay for him to have treatment, so on this level sending him back to libya (which has a basic hospital system at best) could be more aof a punishment than a blessing - he may be a national hero there but he will also die more quickly and in greater pain at less expense to the scottish exchequer.