Guns,guns, and more Guns

[Jacob]

I find it amusing to see Americans screaming “you can not amend the 2nd amendment”

They can only count up to two?

 

[RobinBHM]

Total GV deaths 2021 up to yesterday 44,594

number of mass shootings 687

number of children killed 1,519


this website is updated daily, it listed every single incident with street and town etc.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

 

[RobinBHM]

Merry Christmas and a happy new year!


View attachment 125463

Lovely pic of the Jacob family

 

[Fergie 307]

Rights are not given or taken.

The right to self defence has to be the most basic and moral right of all.
And if you have the right to self defence who can pick and choose what implement you use.

If governments can take away your rights when it suits them, then you didn't have any in the first place.

surely the right to beat arms is enshrined in the constitution, and was therefore effectively given by government in the first place. Clearly when it was written there were no automatic weapons or mass school shootings etc. I dare say those responsible for drafting the amendment would be pretty appalled to see how it is being abused by the gun lobby today. There is no conceivable reason for a member of the public in any civilised country to own an assault rifle. They are designed to kill people on a battlefield, and have no other purpose. They aren't a good hunting weapon, or particularly useful for personal defence in the home. Unfortunately the constitutional right has been abused to suggest that it should refer to any weapon atall. I have no doubt there are some in the NRA who would try and use it to justify having a mini gun or similar if they could.

 

[artie]

Think it's called the "Boyfriend Loophole", have a look.

I just looked it up, I hadn't heard of it before.

But it's not a loophole. It's the law. and could be changed if it was a serious problem.

 

[artie]

surely the right to beat arms is enshrined in the constitution, and was therefore effectively given by government in the first place. Clearly when it was written there were no automatic weapons or mass school shootings etc. I dare say those responsible for drafting the amendment would be pretty appalled to see how it is being abused by the gun lobby today. There is no conceivable reason for a member of the public in any civilised country to own an assault rifle. They are designed to kill people on a battlefield, and have no other purpose. They aren't a good hunting weapon, or particularly useful for personal defence in the home. Unfortunately the constitutional right has been abused to suggest that it should refer to any weapon atall. I have no doubt there are some in the NRA who would try and use it to justify having a mini gun or similar if they could.

The constitution doesn't give rights it merely acknowledges them and states in the case of the second amendment, words to the effect that the right to keep and bear arms will not be infringed.
The reason for the second amendment was so that the people could hold an overpowering government in check, so that's why assault rifles are fine to own.

BTW a mini gun is legal to own but they're pretty expensive and there's extra tax to pay.

 

[artie]

No idea.
One is too many.

I remember this argument from the late 90's when the GB pistol buyback was being introduced.

If it saved one life it was worth it.

 

[artie]

There's another small point that no one has mentioned.
It's not just the second amendment in America.

Our own Bill of Rights confirms our right to keep and bear arms, Lord Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense and resistance to oppression,

Even to this day to my knowledge no one in the UK has been convicted of carrying a weapon for self defence.

Thousands of facs have been issued for self defence when circumstances require it.

 

[sploo]

It's perhaps a sad statement, but well more than half of gun deaths are self inflicted. We parsed the stats on here maybe earlier in this thread.

That in itself is deeply saddening. I suspect that for those suffering from issues that might lead them to consider self harm, a gun provides an apparently quick and easy solution to the problem. Not that it's a good thing, obviously.

 

[sploo]

The constitution doesn't give rights it merely acknowledges them and states in the case of the second amendment, words to the effect that the right to keep and bear arms will not be infringed.
The reason for the second amendment was so that the people could hold an overpowering government in check, so that's why assault rifles are fine to own.

BTW a mini gun is legal to own but they're pretty expensive and there's extra tax to pay.

The defending-myself-from-the-government argument really is a daft one these days. Holed up in a building (armed to the teeth with automatics) merely makes for a nice clean target for something toasty dropped from a stealth aircraft. They wouldn't even see the thing that killed them.

Besides, it's all just a misunderstanding; the right to bare arms is a proclamation about sunbathing. Ahem.

 

[artie]

The defending-myself-from-the-government argument really is a daft one these days. Holed up in a building (armed to the teeth with automatics) merely makes for a nice clean target for something toasty dropped from a stealth aircraft. They wouldn't even see the thing that killed them.

Besides, it's all just a misunderstanding; the right to bare arms is a proclamation about sunbathing. Ahem.

I'm wondering what building would hold Americas 120 million or so gun owners?

And I hope you're not in charge of tactics should insurrection come around.

 

[TRITON]

You are absolutely right, but how many even in America would risk a murder charge to steal someones wallet or a days takings?

Judging from many cases,it doesn't appear many even need that much of a motive.

I think what they need to do is revert to the 1800's and all walk around in original garb, with a gun and holster.
Then save the planet and they all go horse

 

[Keith Cocker]

the way to resolve crime is to get an efficient police force on the ground that are not tied to a desk or restricted by the PC brigade and then the issue goes away.

Actually, the PC Brigade might help especially if they also recruited some of the Wokies

 

[Henniep]

A gun and a car are equally fatal, depending on how you use them. Both are adequately cover by law. Both have consequency if you abuse them. So... if you respect them everybody is safe. If you choose to abuse them, for whatever reason, all the laws in the world will not prevent disaster and plenty heart ache.

 

[Jacob]

...Even to this day to my knowledge no one in the UK has been convicted of carrying a weapon for self defence.

......

Worth remembering if you are caught out there with your AK47 - just plead self defence!

 

[Blackswanwood]

Even to this day to my knowledge no one in the UK has been convicted of carrying a weapon for self defence.

I think plenty have been convicted for this. The notion of needing to carry a knife for self defence is a major factor in the number of people falling victim to such crimes. When the Police come across someone carrying a knife they prosecute successfully.

In the case of guns "self defence" isn't a legitimate reason to obtain a firearms licence in the UK. The acceptable reasons are sporting or legitimate business such as land management.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

A gun and a car are equally fatal, depending on how you use them. Both are adequately cover by law. Both have consequency if you abuse them. So... if you respect them everybody is safe. If you choose to abuse them, for whatever reason, all the laws in the world will not prevent disaster and plenty heart ache.

A few key differences though; cars have utility beyond making holes in things (yes, I know MacGyver used a revolver as a spanner once), and we require car owners to pass a test, have insurance, and prove that their car is in roadworthy condition.

 

[Jacob]

A few key differences though; cars have utility beyond making holes in things (yes, I know MacGyver used a revolver as a spanner once), and we require car owners to pass a test, have insurance, and prove that their car is in roadworthy condition.

and you can't kill many school kids with a car. You might whack one or two if you are lucky. This is why Hamilton used guns instead of attacking with his little van. Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia

 

[Lons]

Only if it's a private sale.

A FFL still has to do a background check.

Yebbut how many are private sales and how many of those are actually under the counter dealers posing as private? My last visit was an eye opener for me, in Arizona driving back from the Grand Canyon to Vegas I spotted what we call a car boot sale, it was pretty big and at least 90% of sellers had guns and other weapons openly displayed for sale, some had little else and there was ammo as well. I handled quite a few of the guns from hand pistols through to semi automatics and have no doubt I could have bought any of them with no checks and despite being a tourist, I was offered several at very low prices indeed.
The lack of any police presence or control was shocking IM_O

The gun laws in the US, like any other law could be changed but never will be, it's much like our NHS where major restrictions and changes would most likely be political suicide so they dare not do it and pay lip service. As a reaction in the UK we would see strikes, in the US the gun brigade would be out in the streets rioting, firing shots in the air or worse.

 

[Stan]

Even to this day to my knowledge no one in the UK has been convicted of carrying a weapon for self defence.

They have! I have witnessed it in court more times than I can recall.

Instant arming is one thing. Carrying a weapon in case of some potential future event is a completely different legal thing.