Friendship vs Greed

[rafezetter]

Lons, you wrote, QUOTE: Asked the missus if she thought I'd look ok with a pony tail which got a laugh ....... UNQUOTE.

Funnily enough I've been "seriously" considering the idea of a pony tail for some time (OK, OK, I concede - "idly toying with the idea of ...." would be more appropriate). When I mentioned that to SWMBO she nearly fell of her chair laughing.

(Actually, I thought I might look somewhat "dashing"). Ah well

Some time after retiring I decided "what the hell". I now have a long beard and a pony tail. SWMBO is not impressed as my hair is now longer than hers and also all three of my daughters. She would like me to as a minimum get my beard shortened as she says it makes me look old.

So my advice is go for it.

I've had long hair before (Legolas long) and I'm growing it again - partly because I can, at 50 I still have a full head, no thinning or whispy bits, unlike most of my younger siblings one of which is in his mid 30's but has a full on William Shakepseare hair, which is ironic as he is a theatre actor.

It doesn't have to be the 80's style "pony tail" - it could be either a top knot as preferred by samurai for centuries or a viking braid, both of which have seen a resurgence in recent years.

 

[rafezetter]

I felt somewhat angry at this friend and my wife and I talked about just dropping the moron.

Wondering what you would choose to do.

I would question how many friends I’d have if I judged them by my own standards, very few I imagine, plus if I’d had a friend for almost 30 years & this is the only time he fell below what’s expected of a friend then I’d suggest he isn’t doing to bad.
He’s not alone in what he has done & I’m not at all surprised by his actions when you consider the hysteria surrounding the virus created by a 24/7 media which seems hell bent on causing panic & is seemingly impossible to escape from, in that regard I’m just glad I’m fairly self sufficient.

While I can understand this thought - the converse of that is that you'd never actually seen his true personality until such time as a crisis comes around.

It's in the hard times that "you meet the man" - not easy times - it's easy(er) to be nice when life is easy.

There are those for whom self preservation (health - money whatever) is king above all, for others it's the sense of morality and being a good human being that is king. Right now we have a great deal of those around, they are called "medical staff".

Ask your friend how he would like to explain his actions to one (or a group) of them whom have not have the time to go out shopping 3/5 times per day because they have been too busy helping the sick and putting thier own lives on the line - like my cousin the Paramedic.

If he doesn't have a look of abject shame on his face - then you've met the man - the REAL man, and the last 28 years has been a lie.

When measured in such a context his actions are indefensible. Utterly.

 

[Selwyn]

At the end of the day no one in this country has starved. People couldn't just get everything they want for about 8 days.

 

[RogerS]

At the end of the day no one in this country has starved. People couldn't just get everything they want for about 8 days.

That a remarkably glib reply.

 

[Andy Kev.]

What the others said, it's sad but when everything has blown over things often have a habit of recovering.
Seems a shame to lose a 30 year friendship but in your case I would have had little hesitation in telling him he's wrong.

I suppose everybody would have a different approach to dealing with this but I think that mine would be - assuming that I genuinely valued the friendship and normally had high regard for this chap - would be to do nothing until running into him again once all the corona fuss has died down. Then over a pint get him to see that panic had led him to being a selfish prat. If he's not man enough to accept the latter point, then IMO he's not worthy to be a friend. We all make mistakes and we all occasionally do things that are wrong. We are usually better for coughing (no pun intended) to them and if he does manage that then the friendship will be resurrected.

But like I say, that's just me.

 

[shed9]

At the end of the day no one in this country has starved. People couldn't just get everything they want for about 8 days.

Is that sarcasm? I find it hard to tell these days on the T'interweb.

 

[Selwyn]

At the end of the day no one in this country has starved. People couldn't just get everything they want for about 8 days.

That a remarkably glib reply.

Not really.

Look the panic buying was real for sure. Everyone thinks they didn't do any of it but actually pretty much everyone did. I'm not talking about trolleys full of toilet roll but everyone bought a little bit more of this and that and created a panic.

There was and is no shortage of food in this country. Whilst some headline photos of the pensioner in the supermarket hunched over the aisles, or the NHS nurse crying were undoubtedly real they were also extremely temporary. Facts are that there are always alternatives. Smaller shops said they had plenty of supply. Many catering sectors did too.

The feeding frenzy developed a further frenzy and then collective outrage because everybody still expected to get what they wanted when they wanted which is clearly not going to happen immediatley.

 

[Selwyn]

I expect 95% of people could easily have conceivably have concocted a good 10 days meals out of what they had in the freezer and store cupboard

 

[RogerS]

At the end of the day no one in this country has starved. People couldn't just get everything they want for about 8 days.

That a remarkably glib reply.

Not really.

Look the panic buying was real for sure. Everyone thinks they didn't do any of it but actually pretty much everyone did. I'm not talking about trolleys full of toilet roll but everyone bought a little bit more of this and that and created a panic.

There was and is no shortage of food in this country. Whilst some headline photos of the pensioner in the supermarket hunched over the aisles, or the NHS nurse crying were undoubtedly real they were also extremely temporary. Facts are that there are always alternatives. Smaller shops said they had plenty of supply. Many catering sectors did too.

The feeding frenzy developed a further frenzy and then collective outrage because everybody still expected to get what they wanted when they wanted which is clearly not going to happen immediatley.

As you've got such a tenuous grasp of reality and actually what it has been like for very many people out there, I will refrain from responding to you again.

 

[welly]

At the end of the day no one in this country has starved. People couldn't just get everything they want for about 8 days.

No one? Despite the corona virus, people starve in this country every day.

 

[Selwyn]

They might do but its not usually for lack of cheap affordable food. You can feed yourself on £1.50-2 a day if you are willing to take responsibility for food budgeting.

My point is that the "food crisis" is one largely concocted. There is a massive supply of food in the UK - I work in this industry.

 

[Richard_C]

I don't condone hoarding, especially if what is hoarded will be discarded or if it for later re-sale at a profit. But I bet we are all buying a few more days ahead than we normally do - I certainly am because 2 or 3 mini-shopping trips a week is more of a risk than 1. And please don't judge me because I've got 24 eggs and 3 packs of butter in my trolley - I have 2 neighbours who can't get out. Other people you see in shops might be buying for others, have a large family, or just be unable to get to the shops regularly.

While I don't condone hoarding I can understand it. We all behave rationally, but we have all had different experiences and 'rational' differs from person to person. My father saw great deprivation in Italy (Bomber pilot, 81 ops) and the UK during and post war. His father was killed in 1917 so he said they never had enough food at home when he was young. When I was growing up in the 50's and 60's he always kept a few tins in the cupboard - beans and spam I think - and a productive garden. I never asked, but his 'rational' was probably that he never wanted his family to go hungry. I worked in HR on Merseyside in the 80s, some of the union reps told me about their experience when young, fathers doing casual work on the docks and bakeries and in lean weeks they went hungry. That's why they didn't trust, or even hated, the bosses. There are lots of stories like that - then and now. I am a school governor and we have children coming to school hungry, in 2020 in what is a rich nation. What will their behaviour be if one day they can afford to hoard a little?

We have had inconveniences, sugar shortage of '74 is an example and it wasn't a real shortage even then. Many of us, including me, have never lived through proper unrelenting hardship. I would be distraught if my children when young had said "Dad I'm hungry", really meaning it not just whingeing, and I could do nothing about it.

Maybe your friend was regularly sent to bed without food as a punishment as a child, maybe long ago his family went hungry for some reason, maybe he feels a strong need to be the provider (we no longer leave our caves and return 3 days later with a dead elk on our shoulder, we come home from Tesco with a boot full of goodies). Maybe he sees himself as a rescuer - when the chips are down he has the resources to provide for relatives. You will never know and can never ask, you may not approve but maybe you can understand that what he thinks is 'rational' may not be greed but something else altogether.

What if he had never told you, never proudly shown you his stockroom? Maybe you have other friends who have stores of this and that but haven't told you, would you be just as angry with them if you found out? Was telling you the mistake? I'm not supporting hoarding for the sake of it, but we should all try to understand why we act differently from one another.

We might all lose friends - or they us - to the virus, making peace might be the best thing we can do right now. When you are on a ventilator you can't speak. I'm not saying that to be gloomy, just realistic. Maybe we should all hoard as much goodwill as we can, just in case. I wasn't a part of the conversation you had with him, so mustn't judge and may have done exactly what you did, but maybe you can build a bridge back one day soon.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I am a school governor and we have children coming to school hungry, in 2020 in what is a rich nation. What will their behaviour be if one day they can afford to hoard a little? ...

They are coming to school hungry because their parents send them to school hungry - their priorities are different to ours. The parents will have phones, Sky subscriptions etc. They will grow up the same.

 

[Selwyn]

And a bowl of porridge and honey costs what? 7p?...

 

[D_W]

Can't really give much thought on the hoarder, but compare the hoarder to a friend who tries to sell you things of theirs to get out of a bind.

I like to play guitar and build guitars (and I've bought plenty that are manufactured, and thus sold many - not for profit, at a minimal loss, it's just a hobby). I've become acquainted with a few other people who do the same. One of them constantly tries to remember anything that I've ever said that I wanted and when he decides he wants something else, he badgers me to buy whatever he's selling.

I find that very annoying. In fact, I find any friends ever trying to sell me something to be very annoying (fortunately, most of mine don't do that - just one relative who is always in to MLM that I had to set straight).

Goes back to the old saying - you can't pick relatives, but you can pick friends. When I can't stand to be around someone, rather than to confront them about it, I just make it more difficult to find a time to meet with them or talk on the phone. They will usually move on to someone else.

As for the MLM relative who pops up once in a while with "hoping we could meet and catch up, haven't seen you in a while", I had to be a lot more direct, but that's no surprise given they have predators egging them on to "be persistent to be successful".

 

[beech1948]

Richard_C,

Thank you for your message. I understand what and why you would post this. I have known the individual for 28 years and he is 11 yrs younger than me so only 61 to my 72 years.

After WW2 rationing did not end until 1954 and I was born in 1948 so I have experienced a degree of deprivation for at least 6 years. Even at age 6 it changes you to become what I hope I am, a responsible 72 yr old with what I like to think of as a sharing spirit, unless you offend me. I still have a streak of mean in me to guard against. Since I was 6 I have not had to endure any form of deprivation or hunger due to two very hard working parents and after age of 20 and uni my own efforts.

The chap I described as a hoarder did not go through these issues. He comes from a middle class family and has had a life of being well provided for and even able to retire aged 60. I used to laugh with him that I am still working on my business.

I will treat him pleasantly, I will not seek him out and I will not provide further help to him unless he is in real need...remember my mean streak. Luckily I have quite a few other friends around non of whom I have told of this problem as it is a private matter of conscience and social behaviour.

So time to let this one go into the annals of history and to keep going forward. Never backwards as the past is no guide to the future.
Al

 

[RogerS]

And a bowl of porridge and honey costs what? 7p?...

Ah, you said you were in the food industry. Meals on Wheels perhaps.

OK...I know that I said I'd not respond to you gain but seriously...I doubt you're in any sort of meaningful capacity in the food industry. Dish washer, perhaps ?

 

[Selwyn]

Food producer mate.

I also go to the supermarket and feed my kids. I know what food costs and I also know what its costs to produce and work closely with distributors
Food (whole foods not processed and added to) is incredibly good value. But you can also chose to make it expensive

 

[RogerS]

Food producer mate.

...

Ah, I see. You're the person who counts each baked bean into the tin. That would explain a lot.

 

[welly]

They might do but its not usually for lack of cheap affordable food. You can feed yourself on £1.50-2 a day if you are willing to take responsibility for food budgeting.

My point is that the "food crisis" is one largely concocted. There is a massive supply of food in the UK - I work in this industry.

You're assuming that everyone has the financial, physical and mental capacity to take responsibility for food budgeting. I'm sure there is plenty of food for most of us but it's getting the food on to people's tables that is part of the problem.

Given that in 2017/2018 it was estimated that 14 million people in this country were living in poverty (it's been since redefined what is poverty so that number may well have fallen), there's a lot of people who don't have that financial, physical or mental capacity to take responsibility for food budgeting.

So, there are *plenty* of people starving in this country.