Friendship vs Greed
- Thread starter beech1948
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Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
How many per chain. The card could only be used once in any tesco or lidl or sainsbury's etc and then no other. it is really not hard to do or the banks put a maximum of £50 per day coming out of any account easy to do as well
Droogs":2y5vixdn said:
We have several of all the major chains as well as one M&S Food and one Waitrose. So even just using cards I could do 7 x 8 shops before even needing to get out the cash which would be almost impossible to trace.
Droogs":2y5vixdn said:
Now you are getting really silly. But again, cash and our 7 cards are spread over 7 accounts, so that doesn't help either.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
look at the economic history of Greece and Cyprus and a couple of other places that escape me for the moment. It really is not hard for the powers that be to implement any restrictions they want if people continue to be Turnips. You would be amazed at the powers that can be brought to bear when needed.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Droogs":1ofwahhp said:
I am astonished at the enthusiasm here for curbing your own freedom, because it might punish perceived"bad behaviour" in others. Nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
You really, really don't want capital controls, believe me. You don't want to limit other people's freedom, because it will by necessity limit yours, too.
Confiscation of funds - aka "Bail in". See Cyprus for details.
Withdrawal limits. (I had to live on no more than €60 per day, for two years. No access to any funds over that.)
Ban on cash
Negative interest rates
Enforced use of bank accounts, with bank fees you can not avoid.
Money that expires i.e cannot be saved
That's just a few of the creative ideas that might be coming your way, if the bankers lose their control. I wouldn't be rushing to embrace any of this stuff, because it makes your life truly complicated.
MikeG.
Established Member
Rorschach":3hmolikd said:
The point isn't to make a foolproof system, but to reduce the bulk of the excesses. You seem fixated on finding a way around any suggestion made without seeing that the bigger picture is that each suggestion on their own would reduce demand somewhat, even if there were ways around them. A certain reduction in demand is all that is required. Who cares if there are some people cheating the system, so long as the system works for everyone. Please just concede that any such restrictions would have an impact and this really silly conversation can come to an end.
Interestingly, this evening I received a news clip (yahoo finance I think) that said the shortages were being caused by accidental stockpiling- most people buying a little extra rather than individual people buying trolley fulls of the same product. Take this for what it is- unverified advice based on unknown "research".
I have no idea if it is true or not but it really wouldn't surprise me. For my family, I have done the usual weekly shopping but it is hard to judge what to buy when we are trying to reduce the number of trips and not run out of things, and we are now home for more meals than usual. I haven't purposely stockpiled anything, and I haven't purposely bought stuff ahead of when I normally would. We haven't and couldn't get any pasta, but to be honest a spare bag in the cupboard would have been sensible rather than selfish (in my opinion). Maybe we are all contributing to the shortages more than we realise.
I have no idea if it is true or not but it really wouldn't surprise me. For my family, I have done the usual weekly shopping but it is hard to judge what to buy when we are trying to reduce the number of trips and not run out of things, and we are now home for more meals than usual. I haven't purposely stockpiled anything, and I haven't purposely bought stuff ahead of when I normally would. We haven't and couldn't get any pasta, but to be honest a spare bag in the cupboard would have been sensible rather than selfish (in my opinion). Maybe we are all contributing to the shortages more than we realise.
Lons
Established Member
I know you've posted questioning it's accuracy and I'm not at all sure where they get that from Marcros. In Costco a couple and a bit weeks ago people were going through with several baskets each filled with nothing but bog rolls, massive bulk packs of the things and the general public putting an extra bag of pasta, rice, flour or soup wouldn't have stripped the shelves the way it has.
Have you tried getting a home delivery btw? Extremely difficult even for those vulnerable households at least in our area.
Have you tried getting a home delivery btw? Extremely difficult even for those vulnerable households at least in our area.
Lons
Established Member
Trainee neophyte":11hignfy said:
I'd seriously question your interpretation of "perceived bad behaviour". This isn't a joke TN it's neither perceived or just bad behaviour it's bl**dy serious and will cost lives as you'll find out if or more likely when it reaches your self sufficient olive grove.
I for one have absolutely no problem accepting enforced restrictions on movement in this current climate if that's what's required to stop the selfish, ignorant morons who are deliberately disregarding social distancing advice. That's what is being discussed not the other issues you've thrown into the pot!
Although I wouldn't wish illness on anyone, I couldn't give a fig if they caught the virus and died, in fact I'd lock the whole lot up together and throw away the key as what they are doing to my mind is criminal. They are by their actions condemning tens of thousands of people to die which to me is akin to manslaughter!
Lons
Established Member
She wouldn't let me get away with that Phil, I'd be making my own dinners. Where's the pony tail?Phil Pascoe":vzmwbhuw said:
HappyHacker
Established Member
I talked to a 98 yr old lady today. She is sharp as a knife, still drives and has been buying one or two more things every time she shopped since before Christmas so that she would be OK if the winter was bad and she could not get out. She now thinks she may need some milk next week and will let me know when so that I can get a volunteer to get it for her. She did ask if it would be ok with all the restrictions if she went for it herself and I told NO she must not place herself at risk. Apart from the problem of getting milk, I tried three shops today before I found one with milk in stock, keeping my distance and wearing gloves.
I occasionally watch the programs about how things are made and the food manufacturers are shipping stock out as it comes off the production line in vast quantities to supermarkets and wholesalers. They do not hold stock if they can help it. The exception is cheese where proper cheese is matured in a cold room for many months before being shipped. Apparently Spain is upping shipping of fresh veg despite their problems.
When one is being told that one should not go out and there may be movement restrictions in place it is natural that everyone is going to try and make sure that they will have enough. Though there is a big difference between having sufficient, shopping less frequently and having a considerable excess most of which will end up being thrown out
I occasionally watch the programs about how things are made and the food manufacturers are shipping stock out as it comes off the production line in vast quantities to supermarkets and wholesalers. They do not hold stock if they can help it. The exception is cheese where proper cheese is matured in a cold room for many months before being shipped. Apparently Spain is upping shipping of fresh veg despite their problems.
When one is being told that one should not go out and there may be movement restrictions in place it is natural that everyone is going to try and make sure that they will have enough. Though there is a big difference between having sufficient, shopping less frequently and having a considerable excess most of which will end up being thrown out
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Lons":oar9eom4 said:
I haven't enough hair. I was hairy at 21, bald at 24.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
All that has happened is that the limited stock held by the supermarkets has been transferred to peoples store cupboards, fridges and freezers.
Supermarkets are trying to restock their shelves from suppliers who use raw produce from farms.
And farms can't magic up crops ahead of time. Animals, fruit and vegetables take time to grow. New sources of imports is probably not so easy right now.
No one in the food production chain wants to invest money in stock. Storing food costs money for warehousing, product degradation, and for many items obselesence - even in the food industry available stocks need to be coordinated with advertising and promotions. This is why just-in-time is so popular!
But I assume their will come a point when the end user stops increasing stocks - either due to lack of cash or space. I just don't know when!!
Supermarkets are trying to restock their shelves from suppliers who use raw produce from farms.
And farms can't magic up crops ahead of time. Animals, fruit and vegetables take time to grow. New sources of imports is probably not so easy right now.
No one in the food production chain wants to invest money in stock. Storing food costs money for warehousing, product degradation, and for many items obselesence - even in the food industry available stocks need to be coordinated with advertising and promotions. This is why just-in-time is so popular!
But I assume their will come a point when the end user stops increasing stocks - either due to lack of cash or space. I just don't know when!!
Some of it is demand transferring to supermarkets from the food service sector, which will just take some time for the supermarkets to build up their supply capacity and the suppliers to get shifted across.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Lons":3v3lveom said:
Today we plan to go shopping. First item on the list is to send a text message to the authorities to get permission to travel. This is required regardless of mode of transport - if you leave the house, you need permission. Remember those old war films where the German soldiers move through the train, demanding "Papers!"?
More than two people in a car gets a fine of €150 per person. Only designated shops can be visited. Only goods that can not be sent by courier are allowed to be bought. Getting the picture yet? Either you embrace the government control of every facet of your life because Big Brother knows best, or you are offended by the invasive loss of freedom. I am truly living in 1984, where "War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength."
Will the government give up it's totalitarian control in a few weeks, months, years? Or will the crisis continue for ever? ‘Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.’
What I am saying is be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it, a lot, repeatedly, with malice aforethought.
Perspective though: this is all happening because of a killer disease, not because of political ideology. We are all trying to stay alive and healthy, and not catastrophically overwhelm the health systems.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
sammy.se":2g83iq01 said:
Well said. I am not expecting a political over-reach and descent into dictatorship, but you never know. Never let a crisis go to waste, etc. To be fair, it wouldn't be the first dictatorship here, so there is precedent.
I don't like forcing people to do things, mainly because I don't like being forced to do things. Force can get out of hand far too quickly, and all government is rule backed by a self-declared monopoly on violence.
