Filing Guides

[niall Y]

In the Metal Working rooms at school, more years ago than I care to mention, I vaguely remember using some form of filing guide. As I remember, every vice was equipped with some, They were L- shaped like jaw protectors but they had a hardened surface to the top. And, having aligned the line to be filed on the workpiece, to the top of these guides, you could happily file away until you reached the hardened surface. It was a very convenient way to accurately dimension metal.

Looking back, they were probably, made in-house, but I don't seem to have come across them since. I can't find anything similar on the internet, except for a rather expensive, over engineered, all singing, all dancing, version, with a carbide surface, used for knife making.

If I need something of this sort, it looks like I'm going to have to make it myself. The most convenient way to do this looks to be to use some angle iron, and then screw some smooth, replacement, vice-jaws to the top. There will be the curved fillet on the internal angle to grind away, to make them seat properly, but, hopefully, other than a bit of drilling and thread tapping, that should be it

Unless, of course, anyone can suggest an alternative. At the back of my mind, I also remember some form of sprung clip - a bit like a flat profile, split pin- that was held in a vice, and might have been used for sheet metal work.

 

[Spectric]

but I don't seem to have come across them since

No I have never seen them but filing and component fitting was something the apprentices spent hours doing and so became very good at precise filing.

What I have found odd is that files in metalwork have a safe edge but in woodworking no such luxury, I suppose you could smooth off one side !

 

[niall Y]

I suppose that on a fairly new, metal working, vice, the jaws themselves , act as a filing guide. Providing, of course, that their tops line up with each other
The guides I remember were replaceable and protected the original jaws, at the same time as providing a gripping, surface less likely to damage non-ferrous metals

 

[Spectric]

Let's not forget the good old engineers blue.

 

[niall Y]

Not to be confused with marking blue

 

[ChaiLatte]

There will be the curved fillet on the internal angle to grind away, to make them seat properly...

Why remove the fillet?

As you are attaching the hardened jaws on top of the angle iron, attach another thin piece of material to the underside of the same surface, such that its thickness equals or exceeds the fillet radius of the angle. Keep it 1mm from the vertical face of the angle to provide corner relief.

That is a better engineered solution anyway: any dross building up in a sharp internal corner (one with no corner relief) will do exactly the same thing as the existing corner radius on the angle, albeit at a smaller scale.

 

[Amplidyne]

It's fair enough wanting a guide, but why not teach yourself to file properly anyway?
It's not that difficult, just practice. You need good files, not too much pressure, and go steady keeping things flat and square, and checking regularly.
I was one of those apprentices 50 odd years ago.
Never took metalwork at school.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

You could use old files as your guide. Grind off teeth first

 

[Hugh M.]

I made and use these to ensure everything is square and the bolster fits nicely:

Hardened O1.

 

[niall Y]

It's fair enough wanting a guide, but why not teach yourself to file properly anyway?
It's not that difficult, just practice. You need good files, not too much pressure, and go steady keeping things flat and square, and checking regularly.
I was one of those apprentices 50 odd years ago.
Never took metalwork at school.

Sadly my main problem now is poor eyesight, rather than lack of skill That which was a doddle to do a few years ago , no longer is.

At the moment I'm struggling, trying to accurately dimension the small sections of metal I need to make ferrules for my whistles. These are 54 x 26 x 1mm. and that 54mm has to be exactly that as it is being bent to form a tube.

Had I "world enough or time", I could persist doing it the old way, and given that I don't have a convenient milling machine I'm looking for other ways to speed up and improve the accuracy of what I am doing.

Funnily enough, although I only got to do metalwork, in my first year at school, I distinctly remember every thing I made and every process I was taught. We were even allowed to use the lathes at 11 years old, which must have been nightmare for the teacher.

 

[Chubber]

I suppose that on a fairly new, metal working, vice, the jaws themselves , act as a filing guide. Providing, of course, that their tops line up with each other
The guides I remember were replaceable and protected the original jaws, at the same time as providing a gripping, surface less likely to damage non-ferrous metals

If the jaws are separate and removable with two machine screws in each like mine, take them out and see if they can be replaced up-side down, as it were to give new, smooth faces?

 

[Chris152]

As I remember, every vice was equipped with some, They were L- shaped like jaw protectors but they had a hardened surface to the top. And, having aligned the line to be filed on the workpiece, to the top of these guides, you could happily file away until you reached the hardened surface. It was a very convenient way to accurately dimension metal.

Will the hardened surface take the edge off the file once contact starts? Just wondering.

 

[Amplidyne]

Sadly my main problem now is poor eyesight, rather than lack of skill That which was a doddle to do a few years ago , no longer is.

At the moment I'm struggling, trying to accurately dimension the small sections of metal I need to make ferrules for my whistles. These are 54 x 26 x 1mm. and that 54mm has to be exactly that as it is being bent to form a tube.

Had I "world enough or time", I could persist doing it the old way, and given that I don't have a convenient milling machine I'm looking for other ways to speed up and improve the accuracy of what I am doing.

Funnily enough, although I only got to do metalwork, in my first year at school, I distinctly remember every thing I made and every process I was taught. We were even allowed to use the lathes at 11 years old, which must have been nightmare for the teacher.

That's a good reason for wanting guides then. Personally, I think I'd just make 'em to suit out of BDMS. 25 or 30 X 6 mm You're only using it as a guide, so it should only get light wear if any. It'll stop rubbing the files against stuff that's too hard and damaging them as well. (As pointed out by Chris 152)

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

C 152
If the files are a good quality they should just skate over the hard steel, provided not too, much force is used

 

[niall Y]

If the jaws are separate and removable with two machine screws in each like mine, take them out and see if they can be replaced up-side down, as it were to give new, smooth faces?

I have a couple of vices - well the metalworking sort, that is ,( i'm sure I have plenty of others)
One, is pretty ancient, and the jaws are worn away ( I rescued it from a skip). The other is a Far Eastern one, whose jaws have never lined up properly.

Will the hardened surface take the edge off the file once contact starts? Just wondering.

I think @Katomi woodsmith might have a valid point about the files. I seem to remember you can buy sets of test files to determine the relative hardness of steel.
.

 

[Chris152]

I think @Katomi woodsmith might have a valid point about the files. I seem to remember you can buy sets of test files to determine the relative hardness of steel.
.

That makes sense, tho with my ham-fisted efforts I'm pretty sure I could blunt any file in no time.

 

[Amplidyne]

Yes, you should be able to tell when you're at the guides, but I don't like taking my files to stuff too hard to file at all.
And they're decent quality ones.

 

[Chubber]

I think I paid nearly £20 comparatively recently for my last 10" second cut, I wouldn't like to deliberately run it up against a hardened guide. Perhaps a piece of aluminium angle would tell one when to stop filing?

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

Just run a length of masking tape on the top.
Unless you are working to 1/100s the thickness of the tape should not be a prob
If you do hit tape, a wipe over with diesel NOT PETROL and wire brush to de burr

Edit. Disregard post, just went and re read op post.... oppps
I will go sit in the corner Sir and try to keep quiet for the rest of the lesson

 

[Amplidyne]

I think I paid nearly £20 comparatively recently for my last 10" second cut, I wouldn't like to deliberately run it up against a hardened guide. Perhaps a piece of aluminium angle would tell one when to stop filing?

I used a couple of bits of ally angle for years as soft jaws on my smaller vice. It's out of service ATM as I've got a bigger one. I cut, and mitred the ends, and bent them round to stop them getting knocked off easily. They're pretty rough now, but if they were kept just for filing, they're be OK.