Floods.
- Thread starter Digit
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Smudger
Established Member
Surface water that would, in other times, have drained into the soil.
What the Sun actually says is
The report calls on water and power firms to safeguard key sites.
Local authorities should create electronic maps of ditches, streams and rivers to ascertain who is responsible for drainage.
Currently, up to six owners can be responsible for one site.
Surface water caused much of the flooding.
Surface water which was prevented from running away or soaking into the soil because of building and damage to drainage channels.
As opposed to rivers breaking their banks, tidal surges or other mechanisms for flooding.
Seems common sense to me.
What the Sun actually says is
The report calls on water and power firms to safeguard key sites.
Local authorities should create electronic maps of ditches, streams and rivers to ascertain who is responsible for drainage.
Currently, up to six owners can be responsible for one site.
Surface water caused much of the flooding.
Surface water which was prevented from running away or soaking into the soil because of building and damage to drainage channels.
As opposed to rivers breaking their banks, tidal surges or other mechanisms for flooding.
Seems common sense to me.
Here in Berkshire, the EA have consistently warned the councils across the county about building any more housing, especially near flood plains, ie, the Thames and Kennet rivers, however, the councils insist that they are repeatedly overruled by central government, and now a report out today blames everyone else but the government, how's that for nerve?
Rich :x
BTW, When was the last time you saw one of those lorries going around the roads sucking out the drains?
Rich :x
BTW, When was the last time you saw one of those lorries going around the roads sucking out the drains?
On the road outside my house there are drains on one side of the road only. The pity is the road lays the other way!
When the house next door to me was built the builders filled in the ditch, guess what happens?
Roy.
When the house next door to me was built the builders filled in the ditch, guess what happens?
Roy.
Many moons ago I designed and built a major road system in Reading to serve a future housing development. The roads were built on embankments to a height 1m above the highest recorded flood level with flood relief culverts underneath - the houses were built at ground level!
Rod
Rod
Dave S
Established Member
Improve the drainage and the water will simply get to the rivers more quickly where it will create a higher flood peak which will then go out of bank and flood an urban development downstream.
Where do they find these idiots? Listen to the people who actually understand hydrology and the fluvial system and they might finally come up with a policy that can work. Mind you, those people have been banging on about it for years and no-one has listened, so why would they start now?
Dave
p.s. (sorry about the rant, but as a former fluvial geomorphologist it's a subject close to my heart).
Where do they find these idiots? Listen to the people who actually understand hydrology and the fluvial system and they might finally come up with a policy that can work. Mind you, those people have been banging on about it for years and no-one has listened, so why would they start now?
Dave
p.s. (sorry about the rant, but as a former fluvial geomorphologist it's a subject close to my heart).
I used to design pumps Dave. From fish pond size to those used to pump deep mines. Customers fell into two groups, those who wanted water and those who were trying to get rid of it!
The arguments I had with planning officials on that very subject, mostly they weren't the slightest bit interested what happened down stream provided it wasn't in their bailiwick.
Roy.
The arguments I had with planning officials on that very subject, mostly they weren't the slightest bit interested what happened down stream provided it wasn't in their bailiwick.
Roy.
The modern design criteria is to try to enable the rain water to soak away locally.
So rather than build enormous pipes to encourage rapid run off, the idea is to let the water soak into the ground or be collected in storage ponds, swales etc.
That's why all new patio paving etc has to be "porous".
I suppose because of the changes to our weather patterns, run-off calculations will have to be designed for bigger and bigger downpours i.e. what would have been in the past, 100 year or 200 year storms?
Rod
So rather than build enormous pipes to encourage rapid run off, the idea is to let the water soak into the ground or be collected in storage ponds, swales etc.
That's why all new patio paving etc has to be "porous".
I suppose because of the changes to our weather patterns, run-off calculations will have to be designed for bigger and bigger downpours i.e. what would have been in the past, 100 year or 200 year storms?
Rod
True Rod, but the 'new' ideas won't solve the problem. The number of house now built in vulnarable places is too great to do anything about without retrospective action, and it's only a few months ago that the Office of the Deputy PM overruled the NRA and a local council on this subject in Northants.
I can't help but ask how many homes are at this moment planned for flood plains.
Roy.
I can't help but ask how many homes are at this moment planned for flood plains.
Roy.
gatesmr2
Established Member
Ok i'm no expert :?
I live in the Fens ...........
Most of which is below sea level and also bl..dy close to the sea :shock:
This was done hundreds of years ago without new tech and bright ideas.
Only once has this area been flooded and that was due to a freak tide.
Whats wrong with flood plains, the only real problem here is Welney where a flood plain is being used a lot more and people are upset as it blocks a road so have to drive the long way around.
Another near Ely a pub that sits right beside a flood plain but it is over a hundred years old and they watch the water go up and down but always stays where it should be, think thats called forward planning lol.
Seems to me that we forget the old ways, round here they took out all the trees, hedges etc on the edge of the fields to make a little more space to plant crops ........ok good idea but now they are replacing them as the wind now flattens said crops.
Old but true saying... if it ain't broke
And while we are talking about water flooding etc ..........
If we are in constant need of water keep being told to conserve it etc etc can someone please explain if the sea level is rising how the hell can we be short on it.............
Ok i know it's salt water but please if we can put a man on the moon surely we can take a little bit of salt out of sea water. :shock:
Martin
I live in the Fens ...........
Most of which is below sea level and also bl..dy close to the sea :shock:
This was done hundreds of years ago without new tech and bright ideas.
Only once has this area been flooded and that was due to a freak tide.
Whats wrong with flood plains, the only real problem here is Welney where a flood plain is being used a lot more and people are upset as it blocks a road so have to drive the long way around.
Another near Ely a pub that sits right beside a flood plain but it is over a hundred years old and they watch the water go up and down but always stays where it should be, think thats called forward planning lol.
Seems to me that we forget the old ways, round here they took out all the trees, hedges etc on the edge of the fields to make a little more space to plant crops ........ok good idea but now they are replacing them as the wind now flattens said crops.
Old but true saying... if it ain't broke
And while we are talking about water flooding etc ..........
If we are in constant need of water keep being told to conserve it etc etc can someone please explain if the sea level is rising how the hell can we be short on it.............
Ok i know it's salt water but please if we can put a man on the moon surely we can take a little bit of salt out of sea water. :shock:
Martin
misterfish
Established Member
Dave S":1csfetw3 said:
The perennial problem of so many walks of life - the experts that know are not listened to while the ill informed, ignorant and 'who know better' make the decisions.
I've seen it happening so often where vested interests take precedence over knowledege and common sense - SWMBO encountered this in teaching and I saw it time and again in the Civil Service.
Misterfish
woodbloke
Established Member
Smudger writ:
Wasn't I reading his obit recently? :lol: - Rob
Wasn't I reading his obit recently? :lol: - Rob
The problem with flood plains is,
a they flood.
b they are amongst the very best agricultural land.
Too often flooding is entirely due to people's complete ignorance of hydrology. Flood plains are a river's solution to increased water flow versus tide levels.
Building flood defences upstream, such as on the Severn, artificially raises the water level, this increases the gravitational incline and simply promotes further trouble downstream.
The SE of England is sinking as a result of the loss of ice in the north during the last ice age, 8000 yrs from now much of it will be gone and we will part of Scandinavia. That and rising sea level increases salt water penetration in land and further increases the pressure on flood plains and the area that any flood water will cover.
These events may be longer than the average government's term of office but are none the less real.
The G & D merchants will tell you how often the Thames flood barrier is now closed but they fail to mention that much of this is due, not only to rises in sea level but also due to the land sinking.
Today the independent states that this summer the north pole could be clear of ice for the first time in human history. Good headline for the G & D merchants but probably not true.
Roy.
a they flood.
b they are amongst the very best agricultural land.
Too often flooding is entirely due to people's complete ignorance of hydrology. Flood plains are a river's solution to increased water flow versus tide levels.
Building flood defences upstream, such as on the Severn, artificially raises the water level, this increases the gravitational incline and simply promotes further trouble downstream.
The SE of England is sinking as a result of the loss of ice in the north during the last ice age, 8000 yrs from now much of it will be gone and we will part of Scandinavia. That and rising sea level increases salt water penetration in land and further increases the pressure on flood plains and the area that any flood water will cover.
These events may be longer than the average government's term of office but are none the less real.
The G & D merchants will tell you how often the Thames flood barrier is now closed but they fail to mention that much of this is due, not only to rises in sea level but also due to the land sinking.
Today the independent states that this summer the north pole could be clear of ice for the first time in human history. Good headline for the G & D merchants but probably not true.
Roy.
andrewm
Established Member
gatesmr2":318p1i0d said:
But that is all arable land where the water can drain through it and into the drainage channels. Then it's pumped into the larger ditches before being let out into the sea at low tide. Why do you think Ely was built on an island? If you built over the fens the water would not drain as easily and you would get flooding. Mereham anyone?
Andrew
gatesmr2
Established Member
That was kinda my point Andrew
Ely was built on an island yes but the rest isn't
They built the network of dykes etc to drain the water and it's still going strong today as it was done properly. Unlike many of the so called government ideas these days.
As Digit said the only problem we now have is from the ice caps.....
Being below sea level this could be quite a large problem but as far as building here i',m sure you know the government wants to keep putting more and more houses in the area Cambridge itself being one of the worst hit for this, but will they think to improve what is already here or just worry about the problem in the future as seems to be the norm these days................as long as it's in the future we won't be in office :evil:
My main gripe being if they could do this so many years ago why now do things take so long, so much money and in the end never seem to work.
And the main reason for the land be so fertile is because it's not intensively farmed, and gets so much silt etc from being flooded.
We should plan things properly not just how cheaply it can be done because we won't be here when it goes wrong.
Ely was built on an island yes but the rest isn't
They built the network of dykes etc to drain the water and it's still going strong today as it was done properly. Unlike many of the so called government ideas these days.
As Digit said the only problem we now have is from the ice caps.....
Being below sea level this could be quite a large problem but as far as building here i',m sure you know the government wants to keep putting more and more houses in the area Cambridge itself being one of the worst hit for this, but will they think to improve what is already here or just worry about the problem in the future as seems to be the norm these days................as long as it's in the future we won't be in office :evil:
My main gripe being if they could do this so many years ago why now do things take so long, so much money and in the end never seem to work.
And the main reason for the land be so fertile is because it's not intensively farmed, and gets so much silt etc from being flooded.
We should plan things properly not just how cheaply it can be done because we won't be here when it goes wrong.
andrewm
Established Member
gatesmr2":19n78uw5 said:
Agreed, it all works well. I was just pointing out that one of the reasons that it works is because it is arable land and that if it was covered in housing then it would probably work less well because the water wouldn't drain as easily.
Andrew
RogerS
Established Member
Harbo":23uq4oa4 said:
That implies commonsense somewhere along the line. By the same people who allow front gardens to be concreted over.
Revert front gardens back to soil, I say.
Shultzy
Established Member
This just about sums it up.
In the year 2008 the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in the UK and said:
Once again, the earth has become wicked and over-populated, and I see the end of all flesh before me. Build another Ark and save two of every living thing with a few good humans.
He gave Noah the CAD drawings, saying: You have six months to build the Ark before I start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights.
Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his yard but no Ark.
Noah he roared, I'm about to start the rain! Where is the Ark ?
Forgive me Lord, begged Noah, but things have changed. I need Building Regulations Approval and I've been arguing with the Fire Brigade about the need for a sprinkler system.
My neighbours claim that I should have obtained planning permission for building the Ark in my garden because it is development of the site, even though in my view it is a temporary structure.
We had then to go to appeal to the House of Lords for a decision.
Then the Department of Transport demanded a bond be posted for the future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions to ease the passage for the Ark 's move to the sea. I told them that the sea would be coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it.
Getting the wood was another problem. All the decent trees have Tree Preservation Orders on them and we live in a site of Special Scientific Interest set up in order to protect the spotted owl. I tried to convince the environmentalists that I needed the wood to save the owls - but no go.!
When I started gathering the animals, the RSPCA sued me. They insisted that I was confining wild animals against their will. They argued the accommodation was too restrictive and it was cruel and unhumane to put so many animals in a confined space'
Then the County Council, the Environment Agency and the Rivers Authority ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd conducted an environmental impact study on the proposed flood.
I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Equal Opportunities Commission on how many disabled carpenters I'm supposed to hire for my building team. The trades unions say I can't use my sons. They insist I have to hire only accredited workers with Ark building experience.
To make matters worse, Customs and Excise seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to leave the country illegally with endangered species.
So, forgive me Lord, but it would take at least 10 years for me to finish this Ark.
Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow stretched across the sky.. Noah looked up in wonder and asked, You mean you're not going to destroy the world?
No, said the Lord, The British Government beat me to it.
In the year 2008 the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in the UK and said:
Once again, the earth has become wicked and over-populated, and I see the end of all flesh before me. Build another Ark and save two of every living thing with a few good humans.
He gave Noah the CAD drawings, saying: You have six months to build the Ark before I start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights.
Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his yard but no Ark.
Noah he roared, I'm about to start the rain! Where is the Ark ?
Forgive me Lord, begged Noah, but things have changed. I need Building Regulations Approval and I've been arguing with the Fire Brigade about the need for a sprinkler system.
My neighbours claim that I should have obtained planning permission for building the Ark in my garden because it is development of the site, even though in my view it is a temporary structure.
We had then to go to appeal to the House of Lords for a decision.
Then the Department of Transport demanded a bond be posted for the future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions to ease the passage for the Ark 's move to the sea. I told them that the sea would be coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it.
Getting the wood was another problem. All the decent trees have Tree Preservation Orders on them and we live in a site of Special Scientific Interest set up in order to protect the spotted owl. I tried to convince the environmentalists that I needed the wood to save the owls - but no go.!
When I started gathering the animals, the RSPCA sued me. They insisted that I was confining wild animals against their will. They argued the accommodation was too restrictive and it was cruel and unhumane to put so many animals in a confined space'
Then the County Council, the Environment Agency and the Rivers Authority ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd conducted an environmental impact study on the proposed flood.
I'm still trying to resolve a complaint with the Equal Opportunities Commission on how many disabled carpenters I'm supposed to hire for my building team. The trades unions say I can't use my sons. They insist I have to hire only accredited workers with Ark building experience.
To make matters worse, Customs and Excise seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to leave the country illegally with endangered species.
So, forgive me Lord, but it would take at least 10 years for me to finish this Ark.
Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow stretched across the sky.. Noah looked up in wonder and asked, You mean you're not going to destroy the world?
No, said the Lord, The British Government beat me to it.
