Exploding Pagers - Lebanon

[woodieallen]

.......and failed utterly in spite of the deaths. They are effectively running a recruiting campaign for Palestinian resistance movements and edging the world towards major war in the middle east

Who would have thought Hezbollah would have stooped so low, eh ?

 

[woodieallen]

Hamas are Shias. They have a common enemy in Israel but otherwise they'd probably be fighting against each other, like Iraq and Iran did.

Plus ça change

 

[woodieallen]

The ball actually is in the Western court.

All they need to do to end this is tell israel that all weapons and financial aid stops until a ceasefire is initiated and a two state solution is implemented.

After that the funding can restart, but while we keep supplying them with all the weapons to prolong this conflict and genocide, it will go on

Oh, right. So we sweep 1000+ murders and kidnappings under the carpet ? Let Hamas re-consolidate ? Hamas who hide their fighters within civilians ? Suggest you take another look at your bias.

 

[woodieallen]

Netanyahu has two objectives, neither of which he is delivering:

• there are ever fewer hostages to bring home as time goes by
• the overwhelming superiority of Israeli forces has failed to eliminate Hamas

Define 'elimination'

....
Those players who could make a difference will also realise the very high costs and risks involved and are understandably reluctant to step forward. In their absence the probability of a stable solution is close to zero.

Agreed. It is close to zero.

 

[woodieallen]

In your world, perhaps, I suppose morals are clear cut, but in the Middle East morals are defined by religion and/or the need to exist. When you believe that God is on your side, there is nothing you can't do, and that changes a person's moral compass somewhat.

God (or Allah) and morals shouldn't be in the same sentence. 'God' or 'Allah' has caused more deaths that he/she/it/goat then anyone else.

 

[woodieallen]

Look at history, the might of the American forces could not defeat the north Vietnamese.

Slight difference in topolgy. Vietnam has lots of trees to hide in.

 

[woodieallen]

View attachment 188419
Israel from the sea to the river - speech at the UN
Netanyahu's party have a stated aim of removing the land and people of Palestine. Officially documented and openly shared at the highest levels.

Nonsense. Evidence ?

 

[woodieallen]

We need to be careful with who is classed as a terrorist, it seems to be very loosely used these days to pigeon hole anyone who does not agree with western values or fails to agree with some idea. So if the UK was suddenly invaded and taken over by some other nation and we were forced to live under there rule and live a very basic life of survival, would some of us be classed as terrorist if we decided that this is not right and we want to live as a free country again ?

We call out Putin because he invaded Ukraine and some believe he has bigger ambitions but Netty Nu Nu wants to expand israel by openly using genocide and the west are just looking on as spectators using terrorism as an excuse not to intervene.

Of course. How silly of me not to realise. Hamas killing and capturing 1000+ was simply what ? A hissy fit? Angst? Bad night's sleep ?

 

[woodieallen]

Hamas could be viewed as being similar to the French persistence in WW2.

But if we accept that Hamas are a terrorist organization, then the IDF fill that criteria too

Depends on the bias of who is doing the 'viewing'.

 

[woodieallen]

Found by whom ? oh yeah, the IDF.
Cant see them being bias.

You were, of course, an on-the-spot witness. One would not wish to think that your own prejudices have any effect on your position.

 

[woodieallen]

I agree, that why they have published video footage of each find of the Gaza metro and arms cashes in / under sensitive infrastructure as they knew the world would be sceptical. To the best of my knowledge none of the western countries have found their videos to be a hoax.

I equally can’t think how anyone can support an organisation that took 257 hostages on 7 Oct. of which a number were murdered / desecrated and mutilated which Hamas happily shared on video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67053011

I 100% agree with you, Deema. Too many 'precious' anti-Semites here.

 

[woodieallen]

Deema, I see no point in pursuing this "discussion". It is too sickening to read these illiterate comments.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have to agree with you, Derek. Too many axes being ground. And prejudiced thinking.

 

[TRITON]

Oh, right. So we sweep 1000+ murders and kidnappings under the carpet ? Let Hamas re-consolidate ? Hamas who hide their fighters within civilians ? Suggest you take another look at your bias.

Absolutely not, the events of oct7th were horrific and utterly barbaric. The Hamas leadership should be brought up before the international criminal court to answer for those charges.

But as to Hamas living amongst the civilian population, arent the IDF made up from members of the israeli population ?
So if Hamas attacks the idf, and israeli civilians are killed, would that not be the same thing.

If Hamas are guilty of crimes against humanity, then israel shares that charge.

You were, of course, an on-the-spot witness. One would not wish to think that your own prejudices have any effect on your position.

I seek unequivocal evidence. Isn't that what you seek ?

Hard to find when israel prevent all western media from entering Gaza. If one side presents 'evidence' as evidence, unless that is corroborated by a 3rd party, it cannot be considered as being 100% beyond doubt

 

[woodieallen]

...

But as to Hamas living amongst the civilian population, arent the IDF made up from members of the israeli population ?
So if Hamas attacks the idf, and israeli civilians are killed, would that not be the same thing.

......

Are you serious ? Would you like to review what you've just written and rephrase it ?

 

[woodieallen]

I seek unequivocal evidence. Isn't that what you seek ?

Hard to find when israel prevent all western media from entering Gaza. If one side presents 'evidence' as evidence, unless that is corroborated by a 3rd party, it cannot be considered as being 100% beyond doubt

You didn't in your original post where you quite clearly said

Found by whom ? oh yeah, the IDF.
Cant see them being bias.

This suggests that you have already made up your mind. Which given your position on other posts relating to this, is not surprising.

 

[TRITON]

Israel have murdered 40 thousand civilians, injured 100 thousand more, with a further 25 or 30 thousand missing presumed buried under the rubble of their homes and nearly half of them children. They deserve no sympathy, nor benefit of the doubt.

PS try to combine your posts, it saves on server space

 

[woodieallen]

Israel have murdered 40 thousand civilians, injured 100 thousand more, with a further 25 or 30 thousand missing presumed buried under the rubble of their homes and nearly half of them children. They deserve no sympathy, nor benefit of the doubt.

PS try to combine your posts, it saves on server space

So what would you have done after the October massacre ?

The fact that Hamas place their fighters amongst the civilian populace has no bearing on the number of fatalities ? The fact that the Lebanese find Hezbollah an irritation. But that the Palestinians live under the thumb of Hamas ?

You really need to do a bit more research and stop the emotional responses.

 

[TRITON]

So you say the Palestinian people live under the thumb of Hamas.So if israel are the victims, aren't the Palestinian people also the victims ?.
Why then are israel murdering vast swathes of them.

You do agree though that Israels actions are criminal and possibly even genocidal ?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The prohibition of human shield is recognised as a rule of customary international law applicable in both international and non-international armed conflicts (CIHL, rule 97). Using a civilian or other protected person as a shield for military operations is a clear violation of IHL and is also considered a war crime.

Hamas are responsible for committing a war crime - unusually against those they believe support them, by deliberately hiding and/or using weapons from within the shield of their civilian population.

Saddam Hussein did the same with a mostly expat human shield.

Even the Nazis sometimes surrendered when military defeat was inevitable, and leave some locations where to stay would put civilian infrastructure and lives at real risk.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

So you say the Palestinian people live under the thumb of Hamas.So if israel are the victims, aren't the Palestinian people also the victims ?.
Why then are israel murdering vast swathes of them.

You do agree though that Israels actions are criminal and possibly even genocidal ?

Triton, you insist on an emotional, biased perspective. For example, compare the IDF's precision targeting of Hama and Hezbollah military (the very recent pager bombs are an example of this, as is the dropping of leaflets into areas where Hamas soldiers hide to move the civilians out if harm's way). If Israel really wanted to genocide the Palastinian peoples, they would not go to these lengths.

By contrast, pay attention to the continual lobbing of rockets into Israel - many thousands - which have occured on a daily basis from Gaza and Lebanon. These are not directed as specific miliatry targets, but just in the general direction of Israeli cities. This has been going on for many decades.

Lastly, you are quick to cite the death and injured numbers given by Hamas. They are waging a war of propaganda. You are a victim of their propaganda (you really need to try not to be so gullible). In this, Hamas are winning because so many appear to be willing to believe their fudging of numbers. Plus, the leaders of Hamas have absolutely no concern that their civilians are dying for their actions (why not give up the hostages? Israel would have no reason to continue the search for their people). The leaders of Hamas do not live (or did not live since some are now dead) in Gaza. They instead live a good life elsewhere on the billions syphoned from aid money intended for the Palastinian populations.

Stop being so bigotted that you shut your mind to what is propaganda and what is truth.

Regards from Perth

Derek