AES
Established Member
The reason why I've put Excalibur in quotes above will soon become apparent:
These machines generally have a good rep, but since the original Canadian design and manufacturing ("Somerville") was taken over by a bigger Canadian company ("General International") - who sub-contracted/licenced the manufacture of these machines to a company in Taiwan - who are still extant - and since GI have now gone into liquidation/been taken over - IF YOU'RE STILL WITH ME! - things have got (or to please our Trans-Atlantic cousins should I say "gotten"?!) - rather complicated!
Due to the fact that we here on UKW have found out that for some time, that the Axminster Tools cloned version of the Excalibur scroll saw machines have been, to say the least, VERY unsatisfactory, it's become difficult to find out where/what (name) to buy if we live in UK (I don't) and want to buy a "genuine" Excalibur machine. So here goes:
AA: The US web site "Scroll Saw Village" has some V interesting (for us) info in a letter/blog form. It has a lot of relevance to UK-based UKW members. So the following is quoted in full:
QUOTE:
Excalibur Scroll Saw - What Happened?
There has been a lot of confusion around the very popular Excalibur scroll saw. They disappeared for awhile without any word. Then several saws started showing up that looked like the Excalibur, but all under different names. It turns out there was a bunch of movement between brand rights, design rights, and distribution rights that gets a little sticky. Peter Kennedy from King Canada helped shed a little light on how all of this shakes out. Hopefully you'll find it interesting and understand this confusing topic a little bit better.
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Hi Travis, thanks for getting back to me. I will try to make this as simple and painless as possible. It is very convoluted so I think point form time lines will tell the story best. My biggest concern is scroll saw enthusiasts, knowing the reputation of the original Excalibur scroll saw, will be unaware it is still available as well as parts and help if required. Please note, my dates may be off by a bit but you will get the idea as to how things have evolved.
FYI, King Canada is the largest supplier of wood and metal working machinery in Canada. We are almost 40 years old and are just now entering the US market.
1982 - Somerville Design introduces the Excalibur scroll saws manufactured in Toronto Ontario
2003 – General International acquires the assets of Summerville Design including the Excalibur brand. G.I. sends the 21” scroll saw to Taiwan to be manufactured and adds the 30” version.
2008 + or – G.I. adds the 16” version.
2010 – EX-21 awarded “Editor’s Choice” by Scroll Saw Woodworking and Crafts magazine.
2012 - the EX-21AE 30th anniversary edition is introduced. 1000 units available. Color changed from green to black and dust collection added to the table, stand and foot switch are included.
2012-13 – G.I. goes back to the models EX-16, EX-21 and Ex-30 retaining the black color and other Anniversary options on all saws. No more General green..
2014 + or – G.I. is sold to DMT holdings of Seattle WA. Including the Excalibur brand but not the manufacturing rights for the scroll saw. They are held by the manufacturer in Taiwan.
2015-16 - JPW (Jet)designs their 22” saw and has it manufactured by the same Taiwan maker as the original Excalibur saws.
2016 + or – The original Taiwanese manufacturer seeks new North American distribution for the original design scroll saws.
2016 – King Canada is granted distribution rights to the original 16”, 21” and 30” saws for the Canadian market. They are branded Excelsior in Canada and King Industrial in the U.S.
2016 - Due to design similarities of the Jet 22”, the manufacturer restricts King’s U.S. distribution to the 16” and the 30” versions.
2016 – Woodcraft commits to national U.S. distribution of the King Industrial 16” and 30” scroll saws.
2017 – Seyco introduces their version of the saw manufactured by the same maker as the Excalibur, Excelsior, King Industrial and the JPW saws.
2017 - The European saws Azxminster, Pegas Etc., are all made by the same Taiwanese maker. These saws were previously supplied to them by G.I.
2018 + or - General International (DMT Holdings) begins to market a Chinese made version of the 21” saw under the Excalibur name and model number.
Summary:
The only original Excalibur saws are now branded either King Industrial (U.S.) or Excelsior (Canada). At this time, there is no original design 21” available in the U.S. The Seyco and the JPW (Jet)saws are designed after the Excalibur saws with proprietary differences. So, the King Industrial/Excelsior saws are the original design with a different name and the saw branded Excalibur is a different saw with the original name. The many manufacturing nuances and extreme tolerances make these saws virtually impossible to copy and have them function as they were originally designed.
Note, when I use the term “original”, I refer to original manufacturer, original design, original components, parts, motors, and specifications.
North American Model #’s
Original EX-16 is now Excelsior XL-16 in Canada
Original EX-16 is now King Industrial KXL-16 in the U.S.
Original EX-21 is now Excelsior XL-21 in Canada (not available in the U.S.)
Original EX-30 is now Excelsior XL-30 in Canada
Original EX-30 is now King Industrial KXL-30 in the U.S.
General still uses model #EX-21, “made in China” on the box and 16” or 30’ no longer available.
Seyco Model ST-21, 21” no other sizes available to my knowledge
Jet Model #727299K, 22” no other sizes available to my knowledge
UNQUOTE:
So I did some more web searching over the last couple of days and here's some other releavnt stuff I found:
BB: A site I hadn't heard of has a report by a Mike Stanton (?) in the US, dated 18th Jan 2022, compares Pegas brand with Excalibur. Says there's little difference between the two. Link:
Pegas Scroll Saw vs Excalibur - Better One? - HookedOnTool
CC: And another unknown (to me) site "DIY Spotlight" shows the Pegas brand (in "the" Pegas red colour). Link:
Pegas Scroll Saw Review (2022) | DIY Spotlight
DD: I ran out of internet searching time/patience, sorry, but went back to the Scies Miniatures web site (the Swiss makers of Pegas scroll saw blades) who now advertise both their own brand "Excalibur" scroll saws, and their unique (AFAIK) "band-scroll saw" machine, which is V expensive but looks brilliant (if your budget goes that far - mine certainly doesn't)! Both of these machines have the now familiar Pegas dark red colour and carry only the "Pegas" name badges. No prices are quoted. Link:
Woodworking Machines - SCIES MINIATURES SA | Saw blades for metals with round back for jeweller and goldsmith for cutting all metals, Swiss
BUT PLEASE NOTE: As I found out before, Scies/Pegas will NOT deal direct, only through their dealers. In fact, Scies have a dealer here in Switzerland. When I ordered some new Pegas blades from that dealer (it's only about 60 Km from me) they didn't have them in stock. So they ordered my blades from Scies, and when they (the Swiss dealer) received the blades, they simply sent them on to me! (No doubt profiting from their "dealer markup along the way). I subsequently found out that the Scies/Pegas dealer in Germany, Dictum Tools, not only has Pegas blades in stock but also they ended up supplying me both quicker and cheaper than the local Swiss dealer. So you can guess where I get my blades from now!!
ALSO: I could not find a list of their dealers on their site. Don't know why.
EE: The Axminster Tools site no longer says they are the UK dealers for Scies Pegas, but they still list Pegas scroll saw blades, and show 2 models of the "Excalibur" saw in their on-line catalogue under their "Trade" designation. Presumably this is their "cloned" Excalibur version which we know have given so much trouble to UKW members within the last 4 or 5 years. The cheapest shows at just over CHF 1,000 (roughly 850 quid these days).
FF: And to close this loop, here's Dictum Tools (German dealer), Link:
Sawing | Dictum
They list the Pegas "band-scroll saw" (€ 1,300) and all 3 "Excalibur" scroll saws (30 inch €1,100) and the full range of Pegas blades.
ALSO:
FF: Amazon UK comes up with 2 Excalibur saws listings (coloured black and with Excali badges) 21 inch model, complete with stand and foot switch. No price shown (marked as "currently unavailable), manufacturer shown as General International. Presumably this info is out of date!
GG: A site called "Top Stuff" (never heard of it myself) says both 16 inch and 21 inch models available (dated 19th November 2021), markings as above, price for 21 inch, equipped exactly as above, colour/marking as above, USD 1,099.
So there you have it ladies and gents (IF you're still with me)!
IF it's still interesting, I've added links to a couple of my earlier UKW posts (about 6 years old now), in which I, A) compare my Excalibur 21 inch purchase with a Hegner 2 (that I could compare side by side at Dictum Tools Germany - my wife's present to me for my 70th birthday!). Summary: I we/bought the Excalibur!
And B) where a while later, I compare the then new Pegas "Blade Chuck" (i.e. "blade clamp" in English) with the previous Excalibur offering.
Summary: Good, but the "gold-plated packaging" doesn't IMO justify that v high price.
HTH some people.
HH: Biting the bullet - Ex 21
JJ: Sorry, can't find it, "seems to have disappeared" from search
Cheers
These machines generally have a good rep, but since the original Canadian design and manufacturing ("Somerville") was taken over by a bigger Canadian company ("General International") - who sub-contracted/licenced the manufacture of these machines to a company in Taiwan - who are still extant - and since GI have now gone into liquidation/been taken over - IF YOU'RE STILL WITH ME! - things have got (or to please our Trans-Atlantic cousins should I say "gotten"?!) - rather complicated!
Due to the fact that we here on UKW have found out that for some time, that the Axminster Tools cloned version of the Excalibur scroll saw machines have been, to say the least, VERY unsatisfactory, it's become difficult to find out where/what (name) to buy if we live in UK (I don't) and want to buy a "genuine" Excalibur machine. So here goes:
AA: The US web site "Scroll Saw Village" has some V interesting (for us) info in a letter/blog form. It has a lot of relevance to UK-based UKW members. So the following is quoted in full:
QUOTE:
Excalibur Scroll Saw - What Happened?
There has been a lot of confusion around the very popular Excalibur scroll saw. They disappeared for awhile without any word. Then several saws started showing up that looked like the Excalibur, but all under different names. It turns out there was a bunch of movement between brand rights, design rights, and distribution rights that gets a little sticky. Peter Kennedy from King Canada helped shed a little light on how all of this shakes out. Hopefully you'll find it interesting and understand this confusing topic a little bit better.
----------
Hi Travis, thanks for getting back to me. I will try to make this as simple and painless as possible. It is very convoluted so I think point form time lines will tell the story best. My biggest concern is scroll saw enthusiasts, knowing the reputation of the original Excalibur scroll saw, will be unaware it is still available as well as parts and help if required. Please note, my dates may be off by a bit but you will get the idea as to how things have evolved.
FYI, King Canada is the largest supplier of wood and metal working machinery in Canada. We are almost 40 years old and are just now entering the US market.
1982 - Somerville Design introduces the Excalibur scroll saws manufactured in Toronto Ontario
2003 – General International acquires the assets of Summerville Design including the Excalibur brand. G.I. sends the 21” scroll saw to Taiwan to be manufactured and adds the 30” version.
2008 + or – G.I. adds the 16” version.
2010 – EX-21 awarded “Editor’s Choice” by Scroll Saw Woodworking and Crafts magazine.
2012 - the EX-21AE 30th anniversary edition is introduced. 1000 units available. Color changed from green to black and dust collection added to the table, stand and foot switch are included.
2012-13 – G.I. goes back to the models EX-16, EX-21 and Ex-30 retaining the black color and other Anniversary options on all saws. No more General green..
2014 + or – G.I. is sold to DMT holdings of Seattle WA. Including the Excalibur brand but not the manufacturing rights for the scroll saw. They are held by the manufacturer in Taiwan.
2015-16 - JPW (Jet)designs their 22” saw and has it manufactured by the same Taiwan maker as the original Excalibur saws.
2016 + or – The original Taiwanese manufacturer seeks new North American distribution for the original design scroll saws.
2016 – King Canada is granted distribution rights to the original 16”, 21” and 30” saws for the Canadian market. They are branded Excelsior in Canada and King Industrial in the U.S.
2016 - Due to design similarities of the Jet 22”, the manufacturer restricts King’s U.S. distribution to the 16” and the 30” versions.
2016 – Woodcraft commits to national U.S. distribution of the King Industrial 16” and 30” scroll saws.
2017 – Seyco introduces their version of the saw manufactured by the same maker as the Excalibur, Excelsior, King Industrial and the JPW saws.
2017 - The European saws Azxminster, Pegas Etc., are all made by the same Taiwanese maker. These saws were previously supplied to them by G.I.
2018 + or - General International (DMT Holdings) begins to market a Chinese made version of the 21” saw under the Excalibur name and model number.
Summary:
The only original Excalibur saws are now branded either King Industrial (U.S.) or Excelsior (Canada). At this time, there is no original design 21” available in the U.S. The Seyco and the JPW (Jet)saws are designed after the Excalibur saws with proprietary differences. So, the King Industrial/Excelsior saws are the original design with a different name and the saw branded Excalibur is a different saw with the original name. The many manufacturing nuances and extreme tolerances make these saws virtually impossible to copy and have them function as they were originally designed.
Note, when I use the term “original”, I refer to original manufacturer, original design, original components, parts, motors, and specifications.
North American Model #’s
Original EX-16 is now Excelsior XL-16 in Canada
Original EX-16 is now King Industrial KXL-16 in the U.S.
Original EX-21 is now Excelsior XL-21 in Canada (not available in the U.S.)
Original EX-30 is now Excelsior XL-30 in Canada
Original EX-30 is now King Industrial KXL-30 in the U.S.
General still uses model #EX-21, “made in China” on the box and 16” or 30’ no longer available.
Seyco Model ST-21, 21” no other sizes available to my knowledge
Jet Model #727299K, 22” no other sizes available to my knowledge
UNQUOTE:
So I did some more web searching over the last couple of days and here's some other releavnt stuff I found:
BB: A site I hadn't heard of has a report by a Mike Stanton (?) in the US, dated 18th Jan 2022, compares Pegas brand with Excalibur. Says there's little difference between the two. Link:
Pegas Scroll Saw vs Excalibur - Better One? - HookedOnTool
CC: And another unknown (to me) site "DIY Spotlight" shows the Pegas brand (in "the" Pegas red colour). Link:
Pegas Scroll Saw Review (2022) | DIY Spotlight
DD: I ran out of internet searching time/patience, sorry, but went back to the Scies Miniatures web site (the Swiss makers of Pegas scroll saw blades) who now advertise both their own brand "Excalibur" scroll saws, and their unique (AFAIK) "band-scroll saw" machine, which is V expensive but looks brilliant (if your budget goes that far - mine certainly doesn't)! Both of these machines have the now familiar Pegas dark red colour and carry only the "Pegas" name badges. No prices are quoted. Link:
Woodworking Machines - SCIES MINIATURES SA | Saw blades for metals with round back for jeweller and goldsmith for cutting all metals, Swiss
BUT PLEASE NOTE: As I found out before, Scies/Pegas will NOT deal direct, only through their dealers. In fact, Scies have a dealer here in Switzerland. When I ordered some new Pegas blades from that dealer (it's only about 60 Km from me) they didn't have them in stock. So they ordered my blades from Scies, and when they (the Swiss dealer) received the blades, they simply sent them on to me! (No doubt profiting from their "dealer markup along the way). I subsequently found out that the Scies/Pegas dealer in Germany, Dictum Tools, not only has Pegas blades in stock but also they ended up supplying me both quicker and cheaper than the local Swiss dealer. So you can guess where I get my blades from now!!
ALSO: I could not find a list of their dealers on their site. Don't know why.
EE: The Axminster Tools site no longer says they are the UK dealers for Scies Pegas, but they still list Pegas scroll saw blades, and show 2 models of the "Excalibur" saw in their on-line catalogue under their "Trade" designation. Presumably this is their "cloned" Excalibur version which we know have given so much trouble to UKW members within the last 4 or 5 years. The cheapest shows at just over CHF 1,000 (roughly 850 quid these days).
FF: And to close this loop, here's Dictum Tools (German dealer), Link:
Sawing | Dictum
They list the Pegas "band-scroll saw" (€ 1,300) and all 3 "Excalibur" scroll saws (30 inch €1,100) and the full range of Pegas blades.
ALSO:
FF: Amazon UK comes up with 2 Excalibur saws listings (coloured black and with Excali badges) 21 inch model, complete with stand and foot switch. No price shown (marked as "currently unavailable), manufacturer shown as General International. Presumably this info is out of date!
GG: A site called "Top Stuff" (never heard of it myself) says both 16 inch and 21 inch models available (dated 19th November 2021), markings as above, price for 21 inch, equipped exactly as above, colour/marking as above, USD 1,099.
So there you have it ladies and gents (IF you're still with me)!
IF it's still interesting, I've added links to a couple of my earlier UKW posts (about 6 years old now), in which I, A) compare my Excalibur 21 inch purchase with a Hegner 2 (that I could compare side by side at Dictum Tools Germany - my wife's present to me for my 70th birthday!). Summary: I we/bought the Excalibur!
And B) where a while later, I compare the then new Pegas "Blade Chuck" (i.e. "blade clamp" in English) with the previous Excalibur offering.
Summary: Good, but the "gold-plated packaging" doesn't IMO justify that v high price.
HTH some people.
HH: Biting the bullet - Ex 21
JJ: Sorry, can't find it, "seems to have disappeared" from search
Cheers
Last edited:
I've seen those and the cast aluminium ones before but thought you found something half as big or less. I have the ClearVue version and it is half again taller.
