Everyone Vote in Scotland Independance

[Cheshirechappie]

It's revealing that the parties have nothing much positive to say about voting NO - just threats, vague bribes, dire warnings and pessimistic forecasts if it goes the other way.
Milliband, Clegg and Cameron just haven't twigged that most of the country is utterly p|ssed off with them and the establishment as a whole, and would be glad to have a chance to express this.

You can't make false promises about the status quo (though with this 'Devo Max' promise, Cameron Clegg and Milipede have had a damn good try). Most of the 'big' things the Better Together campaign have said are not sexy, but are demonstrably accurate.

You can make all sorts of promises about the currency, social justice, full employment, free NHS, free education, perfect democracy, free deep-fried Mars bars on Friday nights and anything else they can think of, and not answer difficult questions about how it's all going to be paid for, and deceive a surprisingly large part of the population, though.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

As a Canadian I have no opinion to add on this thread save one. In my lifetime there have been a number of referendums and a national and provincial political party formed around the possible separation of my francophone brethren from our confederation. My point is that even if separation does not occur , separatists are tenacious. Don't expect this to be over if they lose. Sorry if this is bad news to some , but that is the nature of the beast as I see it.

That point has indeed been made by some of the more switched-on commentators and journalists in the UK. The worst possible outcome is probably one that is desperately close - at least a fairly decisive result one way or the other should settle the matter for a few years, at least. It has also been pointed out that the very strong divisions opened up in Scotland could be very slow to heal.

Whatever the result, there will almost inevitably be a push for more devolved government in all parts of the UK over the coming years - which would probably be a good thing; UK government has become very centralised over the last three decades or so. There was a representative of Mabion Kernow on BBC Radio 4 this evening calling for devolved government for Cornwall, for example. That may a step too far, but why not more decision-making more locally? If the Scots can have their own parliament, why not the English? goes the argument.

Oh well, We shall see.

 

[RogerS]

It's definitely catching..

As the first minister, Alex Salmond, looks south and campaigns for an independent Scotland, leaders in Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles to his north have quietly begun talks among themselves about their own "home rule".

The three leaders, who run the three largest island groups in the British isles, will meet in Shetland on Monday 25 March to discuss a joint project on whether they should demand a split from the Scottish and UK governments after the Scottish independence referendum in 2014 – the date of which is expected to be announced in Holyrood on Thursday. The Guardian March 2013

Would that mean the oil belonged to the Shetland isles ?

 

[Jacob]

....
You can make all sorts of promises about the currency, social justice, full employment, free NHS, free education, perfect democracy, free deep-fried Mars bars on Friday nights and anything else they can think of, and not answer difficult questions about how it's all going to be paid for, and deceive a surprisingly large part of the population, though.

No need to deceive them - higher taxation is the answer - tax is the price of civilisation - taxation and public spending drive the economy AND provide the services we all need. All 1st world economies are high tax economies - if you look for low tax nations you find places like Somalia, Estonia etc. (I'll check that one out - nothing to stop you doing the same!)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

....
You can make all sorts of promises about the currency, social justice, full employment, free NHS, free education, perfect democracy, free deep-fried Mars bars on Friday nights and anything else they can think of, and not answer difficult questions about how it's all going to be paid for, and deceive a surprisingly large part of the population, though.

No need to deceive them - higher taxation is the answer - tax is the price of civilisation - taxation and public spending drive the economy AND provide the services we all need. All 1st world economies are high tax economies - if you look for low tax nations you find places like Somalia, Estonia etc. (I'll check that one out - nothing to stop you doing the same!)

I don't recall anybody from the 'Yes' campaign mentioning higher taxes. Do you? Another little bit of deception, perhaps?

(On the wider political theory argument, you'll have to find someone else to debate with. This thread is about the Scottish independence referendum, and I'm sticking to that subject.)

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I'm not sure that Nick, Dave and Ed can commit the rest of the UK in the event of a NO as any changes to existing legislation on funding, taxation etc is subject to a vote at Westminster. I doubt they will command sufficient loyalty in their respective parties (if they still lead!) in view of the shambles they have created to be sure of support.

For either YES or NO a sincere hope (probably naive) that their parliamentary colleagues have the resolve to address the RUK needs at the same time - Barnett formula, West Lothian Q and boundary commission.

I think that a NO will cause more grief for RUK will want to keep them sweet and avoid accusations of "we were conned". A stressful compromise over devo max will follow and leave room for the same debate in 10 - 30 years time. YES is simple - RUK only need negotiate the best deal for RUK.

Worth bearing in mind that RUK is 92% - for them the world will continue largely unchanged. For Scotland it is pivotal. Having said that, I would still support the union - heart over head??

 

[Silverbirch]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll:

Ian

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll:

Ian

Isn't Jacob enough?

 

[doorframe]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll: Ian

HERE!

YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!

 

[bugbear]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll: Ian

HERE!

YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!

Shades of Meg Ryan?

BugBear

 

[NickWelford]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll: Ian

HERE!

YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!

Shades of Meg Ryan?

BugBear

Very good!

 

[Silverbirch]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll: Ian

HERE!

YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!

You put forward a very well argued case!
I can see you are well versed in the arguments of the YES campaign. :wink:

Ian

 

[Jacob]

Interesting how the issue has come to the front so late in the day.
Wossit all about? At the end of the day, when all's said and done etc - a YES will be probably the first major reaction in 30+ years to the cancer of Thatcherism, and about bloody time too.
It will not be the end - not even the beginning of the end. But perhaps, the end of the beginning. Pass me a cigar.

 

[RossJarvis]

Being half Scottish but living on the wrong side of the border all my life, I was not particularly interested or decided. How-ever, now that all the "No" arguments seem to be totally fiscally based and down to being sold out and enslaved by the "global economy" and "international finance", then I think that "yes" can be the only viable option in terms of Scotland keeping its soul. England sold hers many years ago. If "Yes" means working harder and paying more, then it's a price worth paying not to worship Mammon.

 

[Noel]

I would say there's only about 10-15% of posts by members living in Scotland (going by location in their profile), those that actually can vote.
I don't understand why so many English are worried about a Yes vote. How will it directly effect the population of England other than holding some romantic notion of a united United Kingdom?
I'm not sure the Yes voters will win but it could happen. If Scotland want to go it alone, fair play to them and let them get on with it. Can't see too many people in England worrying about, say Northern Ireland, going it alone, not that that will ever happen.

 

[RogerS]

I would say there's only about 10-15% of posts by members living in Scotland (going by location in their profile), those that actually can vote.
I don't understand why so many English are worried about a Yes vote. How will it directly effect the population of England other than holding some romantic notion of a united United Kingdom?
I'm not sure the Yes voters will win but it could happen. If Scotland want to go it alone, fair play to them and let them get on with it. Can't see too many people in England worrying about, say Northern Ireland, going it alone, not that that will ever happen.

Or perhaps we actually like the Scots and think that they are being hoodwinked by Salmond and his Vanity Project.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29213416

 

[Ring]

Well i'm from Scotland and i'm defiantly voting no with all the problems in the world today Isis, Ukraine ,Middle East in turmoil there has never ever been a better time to stick together. I posted a video in an earlier thread bit tongue and cheek about the top ten myths if only it was as easy as it,s made out to be,this vote will no matter the outcome will cause rifts for years to come no doubt about it and the way I see it just now if it,s not broken then don't try to fix it sure we are all sick of the goverments polices or lack of them but at the end of the day the UK ain't all that bad.
Jim

 

[Jacob]

.....
I don't understand why so many English are worried about a Yes vote. How will it directly effect the population of England other than holding some romantic notion of a united United Kingdom?.....

The English are disturbed by politics as a whole nowadays. There's a widespread feeling of resignation and powerlessness. "What's the point it's all run by multi-nationals, banks, oil companies, out of our hands, what can parliament do?" etc
The media as a whole support and encourage this view as it benefits their proprietors and the establishment. Exceptions - George Monbiot is good today in the Grauniad.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm sure Scotland would be a much nicer place to live with no oil companies, banks and multi-nationals.

 

[doorframe]

Where are all the Yes supporters? This discussion is too one-sided :roll: Ian

HERE!

YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!

Shades of Meg Ryan?

BugBear

OMG!! Is that Alex Salmond in the cap???