Electric vehicles

[johnb80]

My wife just bought a new car, picks it up next week. She didn’t have the guts to go full electric as she goes to our daughters once a week in Cardiff to babysit the grandson. The return trip is just within the range of the latest EVs but she would need to use a public charger in Cardiff if she did much running around while there and didn’t want deal with that. She has bought a PHEV. It’s the Mercedes GLC which has an 80 mile battery range. Obviously less in real life but that is a very handy range for every day use.

Thats a great first step into EVdom, the electric side of it will cover 99% of your use and the engine is onboard if you want to do a longer trip and charging isnt possible. We had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV as our first introduction to electric driving, it fitted my wifes use perfectly and saved a fortune on fuel. Now we have an MG5 full EV and the first couple of long drives we did I had a very slight niggle about range but it all came to nothing. I have now done perhaps 10 journeys well above the 240 mile range and it simply wasnt a concern at all.

 

[johnb80]

That's why some people don't want EVs... who wants their travel plans dictated by their car.

Probably the same people who don't want their lives shortened by ICE vehicles......... just saying.

It really depends on how you think about EV's. I don't have plan to visit a petrol station because my EV charges whilst I'm asleep, out at the cinema, shopping or dining out. I don't have to stand there in a fuel soaked forecourt with a slimy diesel handset filling up with fuel. If I'm on a long trip, when I'm getting down the range a little, I stop for a coffee and toilet visit and in that time i can add another 160 miles easily, time taken a minute to plug in and a minute to unplug. In an ICE vehicle, I'd have to call on the way out of the services, stand at the pump etc and by time I've paid 5 minutes has gone. Who wants their travel plans marred with this experience????
EV's are not for everyone, many of the critics though are people that really don't know, don't knock it till you've tried it. I came from a 4.4 litre TDV8 Range Rover Vogue to my BMW i3. I was sure I would miss the Range Rover but you know what? I wouldn't go back to an ICE vehicle at any price.

 

[johnb80]

Comparing ICE with EV costs is fraught. Many simply select those that best fit a preconceived notion.

Electricity costs between zero and 80p per KWH depending on whether it is fast charged at premium rate or direct from a home PV installation. Mile per KW will vary between 3 and 5 depending on the size and use of vehicle.

ICE does not suffer price variability - diesel or petrol typically £1.30-1.40 per litre. MPG again depends on size of vehicle and usage - somewhere between 30-60 mpg would be typical.

To make sense of comparative costs for a mid size hatchback:

• assume cheap rate electricity costs at home are 10p per KWH - the price cap is currently 22p
• assume petrol and diesel at £1.35 per litre
• assume commercial recharging is 60p per KWH
• assume 4 miles per kwh, and 45 mpg (10 miles per litre)

Per 1000 miles - EV wholly charged at home = £25, EV charged wholly at commercial recharging points £150, ICE = £135. What this demonstrates is that it all depends on use and the ability to home charge.

Making it rather more personal - I am looking for a new car and EV is an option. I do about 10000 miles pa of which I estimate 7000 could be home charged. 3000 on longer journeys would incur commercial rates. Resulting fuel cost - EV = £625, ICE = £1350

Saving £625 pa is non-trivial, but about the same as an extra tank of fuel each month so hardly disastrous. Put into context - if bought said car for (say) £25k it will depreciate ~£3k pa. If on PCP contract the monthly payments will be £3-400 per month.

For me the jury is out - I still have some range anxiety (quite possibly illusory), the fuel saving is nice to have but not the largest motoring expense, EV technology is advancing at pace raising the possibility of early obsolescence and/or limited spares availability.

If youre considering EV put 5p kWh into your calculations, thats the rate available from Tomato Energy.

 

[johnb80]

^^^ Spot on. We have diesel, petrol (classic car) and EV Tesla. The Tesla is used for 99% of journeys as it basically costs next to nothing to run in terms of fuel as we get free supercharging. But even if we didn't the 32Kw home charger is cheap off peak and MUCH less than petrol. Insurance is more expensive PA by about £200 compared to similar sized diesel. Maintenance is near zero apart from washing. (The diesel old but kept because it can pull a really big trailer and do a boat launch).

Thats one hell of a beefy home charger

 

[AJB Temple]

Thats one hell of a beefy home charger

Yes.

The fastest superchargers though are 250Kw (if not fully occupied) and typical is around 125Kw. The home one can be scaled to trickle charge if we want and can be controlled from the cars or from the app. So for example our energy supplier occasionally has free energy from say noon to 1pm and we will programme the system to use that to run everything to the max. Trickle charge is great in winter as you can de-ice and condition the battery and pre-warm the car and seats and steering wheel for a departure time set from the car or the app. It's quite convenient.

 

[johnb80]

Yes.

The fastest superchargers though are 250Kw (if not fully occupied) and typical is around 125Kw. The home one can be scaled to trickle charge if we want and can be controlled from the cars or from the app. So for example our energy supplier occasionally has free energy from say noon to 1pm and we will programme the system to use that to run everything to the max. Trickle charge is great in winter as you can de-ice and condition the battery and pre-warm the car and seats and steering wheel for a departure time set from the car or the app. It's quite convenient.

That I know about for sure but 32 kW home charging is way above what ive heard and seen before, presumably it's DC too because you cant use AC charging at that level? May I ask what make of charger is it?

J

 

[woodieallen]

Probably the same people who don't want their lives shortened by ICE vehicles......... just saying.

It really depends on how you think about EV's. I don't have plan to visit a petrol station because my EV charges whilst I'm asleep, out at the cinema, shopping or dining out. I don't have to stand there in a fuel soaked forecourt with a slimy diesel handset filling up with fuel. If I'm on a long trip, when I'm getting down the range a little, I stop for a coffee and toilet visit and in that time i can add another 160 miles easily, time taken a minute to plug in and a minute to unplug. In an ICE vehicle, I'd have to call on the way out of the services, stand at the pump etc and by time I've paid 5 minutes has gone. Who wants their travel plans marred with this experience????
EV's are not for everyone, many of the critics though are people that really don't know, don't knock it till you've tried it. I came from a 4.4 litre TDV8 Range Rover Vogue to my BMW i3. I was sure I would miss the Range Rover but you know what? I wouldn't go back to an ICE vehicle at any price.

I never need to plan a visit to petrol station to fill up. Just pop in as I'm passing. There is so many of them. Dead easy. Never seen a fuel-soaked forecourt either. Or a slimey handset. Whereabouts do you live ? Time to move perhaps

 

[johnb80]

I never need to plan a visit to petrol station to fill up. Just pop in as I'm passing.

Yep, exactly, it takes time as opposed to an EV being refuelled whilst you go about your business.

There is so many of them. Dead easy.

Not like being able to refuel on your drive at a fraction of the cost of diseasel .

Never seen a fuel-soaked forecourt either.

Maybe you don’t notice any more. It makes you wonder why they put disposable gloves and wipes on forecourts.

Or a slimey handset.

Maybe you just accept it as the norm

Whereabouts do you live ? Time to move perhaps View attachment 188604

Not at all, I don’t need to go to these poison dispensing places now, all electric

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Maybe you don’t notice any more. It makes you wonder why they put disposable gloves and wipes on forecourts.

All sorts of things in all manner of places - doesn't mean you need them or have to use them. I still see hand sanitiser everywhere.

 

[AJB Temple]

That I know about for sure but 32 kW home charging is way above what ive heard and seen before, presumably it's DC too because you cant use AC charging at that level? May I ask what make of charger is it?

J

I don't know really. I had it professionally installed with its own dedicated supply in 2018 and can do 2 vehicles. It has since been upgraded with an app. The hardware was supplied by Tesla.

 

[AJB Temple]

Should probably add - in 6 years of owning EVs I have only come close to running out twice. One was a charger failure in Antwerp. The welsh one recently was caused by not fully charging the car the previous day and me not being aware that my wife planned such a long trip. I put the car in range extend mode once I realised and we got back with no inconvenience with 6% left. I carry the full range of charge leads but have never had to use them, never had to use a public (as opposed to Tesla) charge point, never paid a penny at a supercharger. If I was using the car more it would be fully charged at home every night in the garage and so would always have maximum range. It just requires a slightly different approach.

I never encourage anyone to buy an EV now. I prefer it if you don't. It's better if there is lower demand at the chargers.

 

[John Brown]

We have an Outlander PHEV, tiny electric range because it's very hilly round here, but usually enough for 80% of our trips. Also have solar PV, so charge while the sun's shining. Wouldn't suit everyone, but a good fit for us.
Very nice to drive in EV mode, as well.
Recently test drove a few vehicles of roughly comparable age and size for family member moving back to the UK from the US, and it made me appreciate how smooth the Outlander PHEV is.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I never need to plan a visit to petrol station to fill up. Just pop in as I'm passing. There is so many of them. Dead easy. Never seen a fuel-soaked forecourt either. Or a slimey handset. Whereabouts do you live ? Time to move perhaps View attachment 188604

Not everywhere. None near here they are all a dedicated drive away. I’ve have range anxiety many time getting in the car to discover the needle on empty. It often needs a four mile drive in the opposite direction to get fuel before setting off.
Oh and yes hands stinking of diesel after using a pump is pretty common.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Having had diesels for decades I don't recall going out of my way for fuel or getting diesel on my hands.

 

[AJB Temple]

Snag is with diesels, if you live in or near London, you need a PFI loan to fund the Khan taxes and penalties. And for an SUV diesel the road tax is insane.

 

[woodieallen]

Snag is with diesels, if you live in or near London, you need a PFI loan to fund the Khan taxes and penalties. And for an SUV diesel the road tax is insane.

The writing on the wall for diesels was clear to me about five years ago.

 

[woodieallen]

Yep, exactly, it takes time as opposed to an EV being refuelled whilst you go about your business.

Petrol stations in either direction en route to wherever I’m going. Takes minutes. No range anxiety required!!

Not like being able to refuel on your drive at a fraction of the cost of diseasel .

Actually petrol so marginally cheaper. Offset dramatically by chronic depreciation of an EV

Maybe you don’t notice any more. It makes you wonder why they put disposable gloves and wipes on forecourts.

Wiping the brown sauce of my fingers from the bacon sarnie I just ate perhaps….LOL.

 

[johnb80]

I'm really appreciative to all of those ICE muppets you people still paying a fortune for your fuel helps fund the countries tax burden and keeps it away from me so thank you all. Furthermore, the more you guys keep knocking EV's the lower the demand is which drives the prices down a new MG5 Trophy can be purchased for £19k at the moment, 7 years warranty, 240 mile range, 0-60 7 seconds, Climate, 360 deg camera's etc, a well spec'd car and this is all because you kind people knock the EV's. Another advantage is the lower demand for public charging which in the main is plentiful at the moment.

So again, thank you to all of you diseasel and petrol jockeys, appreciated

 

[John Hughes01]

Heating up sand brings back memories of electric storage heaters using off peak leccy. They worked quite well - Economy 7 etc.

 

[selectortone]

Trickle charge is great in winter as you can de-ice and condition the battery and pre-warm the car and seats and steering wheel for a departure time set from the car or the app. It's quite convenient

Damn those convenient EVs with their new fangled mod cons.