Electric vehicles

[John Brown]

Ah, my stalker returns. How are you doing ? You've been very quiet of late.

Yes, well I think I might have taken a bite from a poisoned apple. This wasn't quite the awakening I'd imagined, to be honest.

 

[Jameshow]

I superficially understand that EVs so far are an expensive flop and that there is no infrastructure to support their wider use, let alone enough sustainably generated electricity. Until then, and until green electricity becomes very cheap, then the private car won't be a priority, as climate change kicks in.

We're doomed Mr Mannering doomed I say.....!

 

[XTiffy]

Much of this argument will be pointless, when charge per mile is introduced and I am quite sure much of the technology is already in place. The use of any kind of a car will be goverened by how much money you have. It will be so easy for any government to ratchet up the unit price to throttle useage. This undoubtably is why Ulez was introduced in many areas. So if you can't afford a new EV then you have to pay £12.50 a day and keep polluting.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I live in a rural location. Our next car is going to be EV. We will charge it at home and will probably never need to use a public charger. To be honest having to drive five miles to get petrol is a pain in the buttocks.

So you never pass a petrol station on your travels? Odd.

 

[Jacob]

.... The use of any kind of a car will be goverened by how much money you have.

It already is, it always has been.

It will be so easy for any government to ratchet up the unit price to throttle useage. This undoubtably is why Ulez was introduced in many areas.

Undoubtably isn't! ULEZ is all about air quality - and appears to be working according to the science.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-truth-about-londons-ultra-low-emission-zone/It's also going to benefit non ULEZ areas as the use of non compliant vehicles falls

So if you can't afford a new EV then you have to pay £12.50 a day and keep polluting.

Or buy/hire a cleaner IC vehicle, or don't go into ULEZ zones at all.

 

[Jacob]

We're doomed Mr Mannering doomed I say.....!

Yep. Does look that way. EVs will be a tiny forgotten detail as climate change changes everythng.

 

[paulrbarnard]

So you never pass a petrol station on your travels? Odd.

Yes but the nearest is about five miles away and the number of times I’ve got in the car to find my wife has left it on empty makes this a significant issue in our house. There has been a number of times I’ve had to drive five miles in the wrong direction then five miles back before heading on to where I was needing to go.
Of course I’ll probably discover the EV on the drive with out the charge cable plugged in…

My point was charging at home means I would pretty much never need to use a public charger give all our trips are less than 200 miles.

 

[frankederveen]

I live in a rural location. Our next car is going to be EV. We will charge it at home and will probably never need to use a public charger. To be honest having to drive five miles to get petrol is a pain in the buttocks.

We live relatively rural and got a second car recently. A little be e-up with a range of 160 miles.

Always charge at home on night tariff for next to nothing and our big diesel car is hardly ever used now. The little ev is surprising good fun to drive and the range perfectly fine for 95% of our trips.

Living rural probable means multiple cars in a household so why not a little ev for shorter trips?

 

[treeturner123]

But where is all this cheap electricity coming from? We are using more and more of it and the generating is struggling to keep up and as for the distribution!!!!

I'm trying to 'De-carbonise' a number of buildings including schools by installing ASHP but we need more power ie a 3 phase supply to ensure we have electric power all the time not just when the PVs are working. Cost and delay so far from the local power company - 8 months and still waiting and £££££

I don't think politicians and the general public have any understanding of electricity at all, they seem to think it appears by magic with no additional overhead cables (which they don't like to see) and acres of grade A farm land used which should be producing food which we will then have to import!

No-one really likes reality especially single cause groups.

Phil

 

[paulrbarnard]

We live relatively rural and got a second car recently. A little be e-up with a range of 160 miles.

Always charge at home on night tariff for next to nothing and our big diesel car is hardly ever used now. The little ev is surprising good fun to drive and the range perfectly fine for 95% of our trips.

Living rural probable means multiple cars in a household so why not a little ev for shorter trips?

Exactly this. Our longest regular trip is to Cardiff and back which is a 150 mile round trip, comfortably in the range of the latest generation of EV. The majority of our trips are in the local area so well less than 50 miles. An EV will work very well for us.
Of course if I need to drive to John O’Groats then the Defender, which has extended range tanks, will get me 1000 miles before needing to reach for a Jerry can.

 

[frankederveen]

But where is all this cheap electricity coming from? We are using more and more of it and the generating is struggling to keep up and as for the distribution!!!!

We drive around 40 miles on weekdays, at around 4 mile/kWH that is 10kW to top up at any time during the night.

At least with electricity there are different options to generate it, with petrol/diesel we are pretty much stuck using oil.

There is an old quarry very close to us, then used as landfill and now generating 4.5MW, and the fields next to it are going to have a solar farm soon.

EV is perfect for most of our trips, and for longer trips or hauling stuff there is the old car still.

Anyhow, works for us but YMMV.

 

[cmoops2]

I was referring to high density Lithium batteries that have made modern EV’s a practical proposition.

I’m not sure Milk Floats ever counted as personal transport!

"High density Li batteries have made modern EV's a practical proposition" ?

If by 'practical proposition' you mean that the whole EV thing is (at this moment in time) is nothing more than a proposition, I 100% agree with you. I only make this point because while there may be ex-WW2 airfields awash with unsold EV's, we need to understand that all we're seeing are the results of an ill-conceived government-led urge to be the first to achieve (so-called) net zero.

The reality is somewhat different - NONE of the UK DNO's are equipped, and more importantly, funded, to put the infrastructure in place across the nation. A good parallel is to look at the period of history where the horse was (quite quickly) replaced by the internal combustion engine - we went from a livery stable based support structure (which also included, blacksmiths, wheelwrights, vets and glue factories) to what became modern day filling stations and maintenance garages. Was that activity actually 'planned' by goverment or was it led by the petroleum companies ?

What 'we' as a nation seen to have forgotten how to do is plan effectively. Major infrastructure projects seem to be doomed to failure from the outset simply becuase the mentality is based upon nothing more than short-terminism that diverts attention away from the issue (HS2 ??) and it is driven by nothing more than scrappy amateur-led party politics ...

 

[Jacob]

....

What 'we' as a nation seen to have forgotten how to do is plan effectively. ....

Planning tends to mean state control, regulation, public spending, more tax burden etc.
All of these have been out of fashion since about 1979 but the de-regulated private-enterprise free-market "alternatives" have been a dismal flop on every front, now compounded by the never-ending dis-benefits of Brexit
EVs are what the motor industry would come up with - they aren't going offer planned alternatives. There is no serious attention given to a future without private cars. It's all about how to keep things exactly as they are.

 

[Spectric]

I don't think politicians and the general public have any understanding of electricity at all, they seem to think it appears by magic with no additional overhead cables (which they don't like to see)

They are clueless, especially politicians who only look at the destination and not at the journey and I believe many just think that electricity is free flowing and without any restrictions, they need to wake up and think more along the lines of pluging extension leads into extension leads until meltdown.

 

[worn thumbs]

They are clueless, especially politicians who only look at the destination and not at the journey and I believe many just think that electricity is free flowing and without any restrictions, they need to wake up and think more along the lines of pluging extension leads into extension leads until meltdown.

Last week's coverage of the covid enquiry amply illustrated that point.As for Jacob's reference to ULEZ improving air quality,I wonder if he has seen this?Significant majority of Londoners support ban on wood burners, poll shows .It would be even easier to identify the location of the polluting devices and they are in use for longer each day than the typical car journey.Insisting that public transport is the miracle answer is hardly realistic outside large conurbations.How many times is it reasonable to change buses and trains on a single journey?It gets worse if you live in a village that has two buses in the morning and two in the late afternoon.It also ceases to be cost effective to run high capacity electricity feeds to isolated communities.Logically,we should encourage suitable solutions for both and not insist that one solution will work everywhere.
While we are at it,can we get our American counterparts to pay the same proportion of the average income as we do for each unit of fuel purchased?They do burn it with some abandon because it is so cheap over there.If we are endeavouring to deal with a global problem,shouldn't we all be doing our bit?

 

[Jacob]

......Insisting that public transport is the miracle answer

Not insisting, just getting resigned to the inevitable.

is hardly realistic outside large conurbations....

You can get to Pyongyang by train! 2 changes; Paris, Moscow.

 

[RogerS]

Have you ever thought of popping in to the garage to get fuel when you'reout shopping ? It's very easy.

 

[RogerS]

.... I am quite sure much of the technology is already in place.....

I'm not so sure. The only viable solution tthat I can see and that will encompass all vehicles on the road is cameras looking at licence plates. To cover the whole country to ensure all road miles are accounted (and paid) for is, surely, unrealistic ?

 

[Sachakins]

Just a point on EV power supplies and the need for more energy from the grid.
This is a bit of a big red herring that's used to forestall the EV change over.

1: Majority of EV are now being charged at home.
2: You do not need 3 phase supply, existing house dingle phase is fine.
3: Main home charging is done overnight, when demand on grid is less.
4: The grid can't store massive amounts of electricity, so night time surplus is wasted.
5: ICE fuel was not storable at home in quantities by law.
6: ICE required the massive fuel station investment to fuel them.
7:EV don't need the same level of public infrastructure because of home charging.


Insufficient grid capacity is a big red herring. QED

 

[RogerS]

We live relatively rural and got a second car recently. A little be e-up with a range of 160 miles.

Always charge at home on night tariff for next to nothing and our big diesel car is hardly ever used now. The little ev is surprising good fun to drive and the range perfectly fine for 95% of our trips.

Living rural probable means multiple cars in a household so why not a little ev for shorter trips?

But how much does a 'little EV' cost ? Up in Northumberland I suspect the price is way out of the range of most folk.