Electric vehicles

[MikeJhn]

Well you could sit in that traffic jam in clean air with your air conditioning on and then when its time to move you can't because your battery is flat.

 

[Droogs]

Or you could sit in the traffic jam with the air conditioning off and just open the window, seeing as the air outside wont be trying to kill you, instead of acting like a numpty. Drive smarter go farther

 

[MikeJhn]

I thought better of you Droogs until now, the vehicle has air conditioning so it's supposed to be used, or do you advocate driving in the dark without lights, and in the rain without wipers as well.

 

[JobandKnock]

Probably. After all, he thinks that the F150 is ideal family transport that I can drive to work in, power my tools off all day, then drive home in -without charging...

 

[Just4Fun]

50 miles per gallon is possible with a cat (toyota prius).

I don't disagree, but just for clarity do you mean US MPG or UK MPG?
50 US MPG is 60 UK MPG.

You don't need a Prius to get 50 UK MPG. I even got 4 UK MG on my last trip in my wife's BMW 325 and that is 17 or 18 years old now.

60 UK MPG is a bit more of a challenge but I used to regularly beat that when we had a (petrol) Mercedes A180. One of the few things I liked about that car was the economy.

 

[clogs]

just seen an ad on TV for the new Mustang EV......looks just like the other Jelly mould car styles....

crazy,
but my gream car would be to convert a Roll's/R Shadow into a pick-up and fit the Cummins 4BT engine....
that engine is so sweet.....
now u can shout at me......hahaha.......

 

[selectortone]

I don't disagree, but just for clarity do you mean US MPG or UK MPG?
50 US MPG is 60 UK MPG.

You don't need a Prius to get 50 UK MPG. I even got 4 UK MG on my last trip in my wife's BMW 325 and that is 17 or 18 years old now.

60 UK MPG is a bit more of a challenge but I used to regularly beat that when we had a (petrol) Mercedes A180. One of the few things I liked about that car was the economy.

The new Mazdas with the e-skyactivex petrol engines will do better than 50 mpg. I have an earlier Mazda6 with the original 2-litre skyactive engine and that will do close to that on a motorway run.

I absolutely love that car, and my other Mazda, an MX-5, (that's how to make an MGB...), but IMHO, engines like these are approaching the limits as far as internal combustion development goes. Fiendishly complicated and expensively manufactured to amazingly tight tolerances. Then you take an EV engine, which is basically a big washing machine motor, a giant battery and all the clever stuff is software. It has to be the way of the future.

 

[Droogs]

I thought better of you Droogs until now, the vehicle has air conditioning so it's supposed to be used, or do you advocate driving in the dark without lights, and in the rain without wipers as well.

Just because you have something available doesn't mean you have to use it. I am pointing out the spurious nature of the argument being used. Which totally ignores common sense or sensibility of the driver and seeing as the air con will run for a couple of days before depleting the btty of most EV's to the point of not being able to move the vehicle

"Probably. After all, he thinks that the F150 is ideal family transport that I can drive to work in, power my tools off all day, then drive home in -without charging... "

This is a is you actually being libelous and lying @JobandKnock. At no point have I stated any of those things. I have never said the f150 is the ideal family car, not even close. I have said it will be a game changer for the US market and for the average contractor. The machine is designed to give you enough power not just for a mitresaw but to power your entire home for 3 days, not my words but Fords.
Regarding the charging, the whole reason you have a hot poker up your chocolate starfish, is the fact that I pointed out the faillings of you antiquated and shall we say very miss-informed knowledgebank, there are more than enough charging points along the route of your imaginary commute to ensure you got there and in good time. All of which just show your arrogance and ignorance of the actual subject overall.

 

[Just4Fun]

This is an entertaining and informative thread. I wouldn't like to see it closed because of personal confrontations. Can we try and avoid that?

 

[MikeJhn]

Went out the other day in my pal's supposed 280mile range EV, as an experiment we turned everything on and watched the range indicator fall dramatically, did not complete the experiment as it was getting close to not being able to complete our journey and get back, it got close to 100miles.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

It's entirely possible to reduce the range of an EV by switching everything on to max. In normal driving it is also entirely unnecessary - except for (say) starting off on a dark frosty morning for 5 minutes (heater, windows, lights etc)

I can seriously impair the range and longevity of an ICE by crusiing down the motorway at 75mph resolutely stuck in 3rd gear! Daft but feasible.

 

[hairy]

Surely the solution is to return to living nearer to.worķ, have greater labour mobility (so more public housing/affordable rents housing) and people tentimg longer as opposed to buying homes, more home working (where feasible) and a major reduction in private motoring...

Even EVs have large carbon footprint in terms of their manufacture...

BTW I am referring to Europe here

In working on larger scale construction sites I would need to take more tools with me than I could carry (The smaller footprint given to site storage, with as much squeezed into the site as possible, just in time if poss etc means no room often to leave things there, and not sensible if I'm working on more than one site at a time). Once that's built then off you go to the next. I lived near Newmarket for quite a while and an hours commute, maybe a bit more, from there would keep me in work, Cambridge, Peterborough, Norwich. Not having a car would mean I would be out of work a lot if I lived in Cambridge perhaps, the only one big enough to possibly sustain the workload.
So if all the people doing a job along those lines need their own vehicle and the powers that be try to tax everyone out of such things those jobs still need doing, so my rate goes up to cover those costs, building costs go up and the client whoever that may be (school, hospital, block of flats etc) will pay more.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I thought this was an interesting take on how the tipping point may materialise.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57416829

 

[alz]

Years ago, when they began importing the Citroen 2CV into the UK, my wife bought one. I ran a Land Rover but became fascinated by the "tin snail".
We still get snow in Scotland, and the 2CV seemed to tackle the winters almost as well as the 4x4 (most drivers seem unable to cope with the smallest snowfall nowadays). The 2CV also seemed to hardly ever need to visit the petrol station!
As for EV's, keep hearing about problems re battery metals and future electricity supply?

 

[selectortone]

I thought this was an interesting take on how the tipping point may materialise.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57416829

Saw that on the BBC website the other day. Food for thought.

"And don't worry about where the electricity to power all these new cars will come from.
The National Grid says it won't have a problem charging all the electric vehicles that are going to come onto our roads.
In fact, it isn't expecting much of an increase in demand, just 10% when everyone is driving electric.
That's because we drive much less than we tend to imagine. The average car journey is just 8.4 miles, according to the Department for Transport.
And, explains Isabelle Haigh, the head of national control for the National Grid, there is already quite a lot of spare capacity built into the system.
"Most charging will not be at time of peak, and peak demand has been reducing over the years so we are very confident there is enough energy to meet demand," she says."

 

[TominDales]

I thought this was an interesting take on how the tipping point may materialise.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57416829

Interesting take. Innovation and new technology follows whats called an s curve. Very slow uptake to start with then very rapid exceeding all forecasts as it grows explosively and then tails off, in my experience old tech tends to hang around for quite a while at the top of the s curve. We still had hemp sail makers in Hutton Rugby until the 1950s servicing the remaining tea clippers.

However I'm sure the point is well made sometime around 2025 there will be a tipping point where EVs become the much cheaper option and ICE goes into rapid decline. Not just petrol station will die but the major manufactures will stop sell the less popular ICE models, the cost of parts will go through the roof etc. So the choice of ICE will fall as the choice of EVs rises.

 

[TominDales]

Latest forecast from Bloomberg, good source of data. This gives a very international perspective. Its possible to download the executive summary. I was surprised how developed the Chinese market it especially for vehicle that we don't use much 2 and 3 wheelers. Its explains the different statistics showing China to be the worlds biggest market for batteries. Bloomberg forecast China and EU as leaders with US and South Asia as laggards.
https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/following Blakswanwood's recent post on the demise of petrol stations, my thoughts are similar that the market will accelerate faster in the mix 2020s than this Bloomberg forecast, once prices of EVs hits a tipping point. This report seems to think low cost ICE in India will continue for quite some time, but I suspect once the economics of scale for EVs is reached they will rapidly supplant ICE for general purpose vehicles. Also I expect the US will lagg to start and then rapidly swap over. That is the US way on most things, a bit slow to start with and then a massive economic drive to leader in the new technology.

 

[Ozi]

It's a nice sunny Saturday and right now 69.2% of our national grid is being powered by low carbon generation. One of the main issues with getting this figure higher is a lack of energy storage making it less economic to install more renewable energy. Repurposed car batteries can be one of the solutions. Anyone object to being to buy more of the power they use when it's cheep rate

 

[selectortone]

It's a nice sunny Saturday and right now 69.2% of our national grid is being powered by low carbon generation. One of the main issues with getting this figure higher is a lack of energy storage making it less economic to install more renewable energy. Repurposed car batteries can be one of the solutions. Anyone object to being to buy more of the power they use when it's cheep rate

Most cars sit outside people's houses or in car parks for most of the day. When they're EVs there's your storage.

 

[Ozi]

Interesting take. Innovation and new technology follows whats called an s curve. Very slow uptake to start with then very rapid exceeding all forecasts as it grows explosively and then tails off, in my experience old tech tends to hang around for quite a while at the top of the s curve. We still had hemp sail makers in Hutton Rugby until the 1950s servicing the remaining tea clippers.

However I'm sure the point is well made sometime around 2025 there will be a tipping point where EVs become the much cheaper option and ICE goes into rapid decline. Not just petrol station will die but the major manufactures will stop sell the less popular ICE models, the cost of parts will go through the roof etc. So the choice of ICE will fall as the choice of EVs rises.

You will know when the point comes as Toyota will start making them, they will let everyone else take the hit getting to that point then takeover, until then it's self charging hybrids - watch this space.