The only point of a so called self-charging hybrid is to get better fuel economy (at quite a price) by using regenerative braking rather than brake pads. This is quite noticeable, but as said, the are totally fuel powered. A plug-in hybrid makes a bit more sense for people who do short trips most days and long trips occasionally. This is my situation; I have my Leaf now, I didn't get the longest-range model and I'll see how I get on with good planning. People who drive high mileages on time-critical business need the longest range car possible. At the moment this pretty much means a Tesla, but the scene will be very different in a year or two. Caravanners and trailer haulers will have to wait a bit too.
Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
stuartpaul":fvdqyiy8 said:
Tesla haven't stitched up the charging system. They approached other OEM at the start and were rejected when they proposed a universal charger plug standard and also they offered the idea of clubbing together to create the charging infrastructure. Mainly 'cause the car OEMs laughed them out the room as no-one took them seriously, Tesla spent 3.7Blln USD to build its worldwide system so far. As they started basically 5 years before anyone else bothered about it or took BEVs seriously that is why all the others are so sh!t in comparison. Ionity is a charging consortium of fossil car OEMs trying to catch up as they now realize they are totally knackered otherwise. They have relied on being able to buy in the infrastructure just like their ICE cars and can see what way the wind is blowing and basically are starting to panic.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
I have (very briefly) being looking at DIY conversions - £6,000 plus a vehicle to play with, which ideally should be structurally sound but doesn't need an engine. If you want huge performance (or a pickup truck) £6,000 goes up to £10,000. If anyone has first hand knowledge, I would be interested to hear.
I'm thinking about how, in a few years, older diesel cars in particular will be virtually worthless, and there may even be a market for conversions. Assuming ev cars are the future, that is.
The problem with being an early adopter is that you have to have the funds for a new car. I have never bought a new car, and I tend to run my second hand cars until they are scrapped. In my youth that used to happen quite often - both the buying and the scrapping.
I'm thinking about how, in a few years, older diesel cars in particular will be virtually worthless, and there may even be a market for conversions. Assuming ev cars are the future, that is.
The problem with being an early adopter is that you have to have the funds for a new car. I have never bought a new car, and I tend to run my second hand cars until they are scrapped. In my youth that used to happen quite often - both the buying and the scrapping.
The BEV technology is already here. It's just a case of not over-complicating things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlndKQSs6Q
Duncan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlndKQSs6Q
Duncan
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Saudi Arabia has dropped the oil price by $10 a barrel, allegedly. OPEC openly at war with itself. We live in interesting times.
It may make ICE vehicles cheaper for longer, or it may just show how much of the price of fuel is not the cost of the fuel, but the tax.
According to HM Gov:
Add the VAT on to the duty, and you are paying a smidgen under £0.70 per litre in taxes. Always nice to be taxed on your tax.
It may make ICE vehicles cheaper for longer, or it may just show how much of the price of fuel is not the cost of the fuel, but the tax.
According to HM Gov:
Add the VAT on to the duty, and you are paying a smidgen under £0.70 per litre in taxes. Always nice to be taxed on your tax.
I had one (a Corolla) for a week while my car was in for a recall. The fuel efficency was impressive - I got 65mpg out of it in city traffic which is way better than any ICE I've ever driven. It drove quite nicely as well as the electric motor makes up for the slightly weedy petrol.RogerS":1bqh0npu said:
So I can see the point over a petrol or diesel car.
RogerS
Established Member
Rich C":ubu1awnz said:
That's as maybe. The TCO is very high and there is just more stuff to go wrong.
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
£6bn a year sounds impressive https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... c-vehicles
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
Trainee neophyte":2nscbzrl said:
It's a little more nuanced than you suggest. Russia (part of a wider group) failed to support OPEC - they need the cashflow more than the arabs it seems. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ction-cuts
I think that they will be scrabbling for market share in a shrinking market before long.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
As consumers we are probably all delighted at the prospect of reduced motoring costs as demand for oil reduces and the price falls.
However this may pose a major threat to global stability as many oil producing nations are reliant on oil revenues with limited other economic sectors to generate income.
The United States 12,108,000 BPD (barrels per day)
Russia 10,835,000 BPD
Saudi Arabia 9,580,000 BPD
Iraq 4,620,000 BPD
Canada 4,129,000 BPD
China 3,823,000 BPD
The United Arab Emirates 3,068,000 BPD
Kuwait 2,652,000 BPD
Brazil 2,604,000 BPD
Iran 2,213,000 BPD
The top 10 account for a little over 70% of world output.
- only 3 are real democracies (US, Canada,Brazil)
- 5 are Middle East. Little other major economic activity - cue major instability
- Russia is corrupt, loss of income could make them unpredictable
- China uses most oil production internally, exports little
Oil has historically been regarded as inelastic - as prices change, demand remains fairly constant as there were limited alternatives. On this basis a small reduction in demand could could lead to a much larger price fall.
So the impact on the economies of the larger producers (US, Canada, China aside) could be catastophic. Even OPEC whose members liked to cooperate in setting prices will have limited influence (a) they only control part of world output, and (b) have historically struggled to agree on even small changes.
However this may pose a major threat to global stability as many oil producing nations are reliant on oil revenues with limited other economic sectors to generate income.
The United States 12,108,000 BPD (barrels per day)
Russia 10,835,000 BPD
Saudi Arabia 9,580,000 BPD
Iraq 4,620,000 BPD
Canada 4,129,000 BPD
China 3,823,000 BPD
The United Arab Emirates 3,068,000 BPD
Kuwait 2,652,000 BPD
Brazil 2,604,000 BPD
Iran 2,213,000 BPD
The top 10 account for a little over 70% of world output.
- only 3 are real democracies (US, Canada,Brazil)
- 5 are Middle East. Little other major economic activity - cue major instability
- Russia is corrupt, loss of income could make them unpredictable
- China uses most oil production internally, exports little
Oil has historically been regarded as inelastic - as prices change, demand remains fairly constant as there were limited alternatives. On this basis a small reduction in demand could could lead to a much larger price fall.
So the impact on the economies of the larger producers (US, Canada, China aside) could be catastophic. Even OPEC whose members liked to cooperate in setting prices will have limited influence (a) they only control part of world output, and (b) have historically struggled to agree on even small changes.
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
Terry - Somerset":dgbgn4o2 said:
Whether its a temporary thing like covid19, or a structural thing like the decline of the ICE, states like Iran and Saudi - whose populations have burgeoned over recent decades - face enormous problems. At least Saudi has one of the lowest marginal costs of production - it could probably make a profit if oil went down to 10 us/bbl but couldn't fund its commitments to its own people. The real pain is being felt by the unconventional shale oil producers where marginal costs are 30-50 us/bbl hence the trashing of Riverstone Energy's share price, for example - there's a lot of recent oil investment close to being underwater, which is a threat to finacial stability, besides political stability.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Woody2Shoes":72z00ry1 said:
I may be wrong, but I think KSA need the oil price higher more than Russia does. Russia has a balanced budget with oil at $40 a barrel. They also have a real economy, and so aren't totally dependent on oil. KSA was planning on $65 a barrel. I think they may actually need north of $80 a barrel just to break even. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... e-Low.html
As you point out, it is all about market share. Will a slash and burn fire sale benefit Saudi Arabia? Will USA force Europe to buy from anyone who isn't Russia? Will electricity actually end the oil wars? We certainly live in interesting times...
Then there is the Aramco share price, if you are a fan of schadenfreude. I would be a bit depressed if I bought into that IPO. https://markets.businessinsider.com/sto ... stock?op=1
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
Russia exports four times as much gas as it does crude oil (approx $400bn vs $100bn in 2019 from memory). It's more concerned about being the power in Syria and stopping gas pipeline exports from Qatar to Eastern Europe.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Terry - Somerset":vcvd3ib3 said:
"Russia is corrupt". Corrupt in comparison to whom? The US military has lost $6 trillion dollars - not mis-allocated, but vanished into the scotch mist (or someone's pocket). The entire US government is struggling to account for 21 trillion. Hillary Clinton sold the US uranium reserve deposits to Russia, and pocketed $145 million. Too big to fail banks commit fraud constantly, and pay a trivial percentage of their profit as a fine, and carry on. The entire system is corrupt.
What you haven't touched on is the petrodollar system: KSA sells oil in dollars, and uses those dollars to buy US debt. US dollar is king because if this, and anyone who tries selling oil not in dollars gets a bayonet suppository as a warning. If this system breaks down, the US debt is instantly unsustainable, the dollar will not be needed for oil sales, and the many, many trillions of dollars around the world will make their way back to USA for a Zimbabwe style hyperinflation. Maybe.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
Good podcast from fully charged with Baroness Worthington (originator of the Environment Bill)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAiAzHddqCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAiAzHddqCY
She does make some interesting points, when Robert Llewellyn finally allows her to speak. But I got very fed up with his waffle, self-promotion, talking over her, patronising and generally mansplaining in about half of the long podcast!
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
but she was interesting to me with the way her mind is working on the ways to monetise electric transportation in a way the Treasury would be happy to move forward and incentivise its uptake especially the idea about 0% loans to convert current ICE for the second hand market
Droogs":34bfg5j7 said:
Yes indeed she was very interesting, when she could get a word in over his blather! I think those sort of ideas will have to be introduced. Just as one must ration times of charging by smart meters and price, not by compulsion. Make it a win-win.
The secondhand market is obviously a big factor. Has anyone done this (converted an ICE car) or looked into it? I imagine a concern is where to put the batteries when the car is not designed for them.
RogerS
Established Member
MusicMan":3ovq1tt6 said:
How on earth would they prove it was roadworthy !
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
People have been doing DIY electric conversions for years. I guess they just MOT it like any other vehicle.
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