clogs
just can't decide
Droogs,
fangle must be something like "scratch" everythingis made from it.....lol....
fangle must be something like "scratch" everythingis made from it.....lol....
Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
- Start date
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I'd be fairly sure there is a regular service interval on the electric cars to satisfy the dealer network at this point. Service and repair is the profit center for the dealers in the US and probably everywhere. They'll still be fixing modular things and window motors and such in these cars, but for the rest of their revenue from service, they're going to have to get creative, and the brands are going to have to help them figure that out.
That is an excellent point and can be expanded to cover all the independent workshops that service cars without being tied to any particular brand. A friend has such a business. He is very active and has been growing his business, with each month's turnover setting new records even during the pandemic. Yet he has no in-house expertise with electric vehicles, does not service them, and has no plans to move into this area. That seems short-sighted to me. I think he could be treating this as an opportunity but he is basically sticking his head in the sand and ignoring a trend that is a long-term threat to his business.
Lons
Established Member
I'd agree but there is another way to look at that as ICE cars are still going to be on the roads for very many years yet, probably at least 25 to 30 years and they still need servicing perhaps more so if owners hang on to their vehicles for longer, I guess depending on his age he might possibly think he'll be long retired before then.
My Merc has just come out of warranty so rather than use the main dealer I had it serviced a few weeks ago by a local independent who's owner is a close friend of my son, he suggested it will be years before he needs to look at BEVs and has no plans at present as he is doing very nicely.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
The powertrain is only part of a service and repair requirement - all other functions - brakes, steering, suspesion, aircon, central locking, wipers etc - are similar.
Expect monitoring and fault systems to become ever more sophisticated and the current trend (wasteful) to replace entire modules will continue.
However, were I running an independent garage I would want to get proficient in the new tech unless planning to retire in the next 5-10 years.
ICE may be around for another 20-30 years, but as the end approaches there will be far more ICE competent garages than there are cars to service!
Expect monitoring and fault systems to become ever more sophisticated and the current trend (wasteful) to replace entire modules will continue.
However, were I running an independent garage I would want to get proficient in the new tech unless planning to retire in the next 5-10 years.
ICE may be around for another 20-30 years, but as the end approaches there will be far more ICE competent garages than there are cars to service!
I'd imagine periodic inspection of electrical and battery components will probably be offered as a side service. Kind of like transmission flushes are offered on sealed transmissions now (that otherwise would outlast most of the cars that they're in). Who knows what else. Virus scans, etc. There are already system flashes offered by third parties, but the manufacturers would frown on that!
In the states, dealers have aesthetic requirements - the whole property gets redone. I would guess the manufacturers dictate that, and offer exclusivity in return. Dealer repair or service work here is highway robbery to be avoided, but it's partially a consequence of a wise public who can shop dozens of dealers at once with email buying (the revenue shifts to finance, trade margin and service).
I think what may happen in some places (as most electronics groups here in the states are trying to serialize all parts so that nobody else can repair their wares, and if anyone tries, the non-serial matching part is rejected and the entire unit doesn't work) is that dealers will maintain ability to work exclusively on their machines, and they will use "consumer safety" as an excuse. It's already happening here on computers and devices. You can get your screen repaired at an independent shop for $300 on a laptop, or apple will give you an option that costs $1700. There's a huge legal fight about it right now as samsung and apple serialize parts on devices. brand lobbyists have more money than anyone else as far as legislature and council in most places do (or repair groups) so it's still legal here in most cases.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/4/...to-repair-question-1-wireless-car-data-passes
Nobody would've guessed cars in this situation 10 years ago, but manufacturers can deny your ability to use your car in some cases under spurious claims of safety or a fault detected.
NikNak
Established Member
wowzer... its begun... Plug-in car sales overtake diesels in race to 2030 ban
Bit cheeky there. That's all types of electric vehicle vs diesel only and as everyone knows diesels are being purposely discriminated against at the moment.
Almost 56k Petrol vehicles were sold last month, that's more than 3x the number of electric/hybrid vehicles.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
In 2018 - 2 years ago - sales of pure electric vehicles was less than 1% of the market. This year to date is 6%.
Sales of assorted hybrids accounted for 20% of the market in 2020.
People are voting with their "pockets".
Diesel is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a polluting technology and now offers litte benefit over modern petrol units.
EVs are increasing in range and reducing in price making them relatively more attractive. Right now running costs are also a positive - although longer term this will be influenced by possible changes in road pricing and tax.
Within 5 years people will only be buying conventional ICE if it is hugely discounted as resale values will fall off a cliff after 2030 (possibly apart from the very specialist).
Sales of assorted hybrids accounted for 20% of the market in 2020.
People are voting with their "pockets".
Diesel is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a polluting technology and now offers litte benefit over modern petrol units.
EVs are increasing in range and reducing in price making them relatively more attractive. Right now running costs are also a positive - although longer term this will be influenced by possible changes in road pricing and tax.
Within 5 years people will only be buying conventional ICE if it is hugely discounted as resale values will fall off a cliff after 2030 (possibly apart from the very specialist).
(My emphasis)
To be fair, that depends where you live and what you use the vehicle for. Where I live the annual tax (like road tax) on a diesel car is a lot more than on a petrol car, but diesel fuel is cheaper. So there is a cut-off point. If you drive more than that cut-off level a diesel car is cheaper to run; if you drive less than the cut-off then a petrol car is cheaper to run.
Of course all this really proves is that the cost of running a vehicle - any vehicle - is totally dependant upon the whim of the government, who can change the calculations whenever they so decide. This applies just as much to EV as ICE, so even if you make detailed financial plans when deciding which to buy you have to be prepared for change at any time.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
The fun part about electric vehicles is that you could, in theory, generate your own power to charge it. A Nissan Leaf apparently has either a 40 or 60kWh battery. My 10kw solar "array" (is that too posh a word for some panels bolted to the roof of my house?) can generate 60kWh in a day, just...but only in June and July. In December 20kwh per day is difficult. 10kw solar system would cost £6,000 absolute minimum and most likely more. How would that work out from a cost/benefit point of view?
Allegedly it would cost £8.20 to fully charge a 60kWh battery (so a random Web search tells me), therefore if I pay £8,200 for my solar installation for easy maths purposes, I get 1,000 full charges from the mains electricity before my solar array breaks even. That would be 3 years of completely discharged batteries every day, with perfect midsummer sunshine, or more likely 6 years of more "normal" usage, and 12 years if I wanted sufficient power to actually do the job for more than 2 months of the year. It's quite a long term investment. Just go to show how much energy is required.
I'm not sure what I just proved to myself, if anything.
Allegedly it would cost £8.20 to fully charge a 60kWh battery (so a random Web search tells me), therefore if I pay £8,200 for my solar installation for easy maths purposes, I get 1,000 full charges from the mains electricity before my solar array breaks even. That would be 3 years of completely discharged batteries every day, with perfect midsummer sunshine, or more likely 6 years of more "normal" usage, and 12 years if I wanted sufficient power to actually do the job for more than 2 months of the year. It's quite a long term investment. Just go to show how much energy is required.
I'm not sure what I just proved to myself, if anything.
I currently have a Diesel just because I used to do 20K+ miles a year. I now do about 8k so wouldn't choose a diesel again. However, I've took the depreciation hit and taken the view that I run this for a good few years more and then purchase and electric if they are comparatively cheaper than at present.
I'm sure the tax on diesel will be increased
I'm sure the tax on diesel will be increased
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
A 60 kwh battery will allow you to drive ~ 200miles in a typical EV.
You may need/want to do that each day - but more likely you need ~ 60kwh a week.
The question is then - how quickly do you want to be able to recharge it - in a few hours, a full day, or several days - and therefore what level of output you need from your PV array.
You may need/want to do that each day - but more likely you need ~ 60kwh a week.
The question is then - how quickly do you want to be able to recharge it - in a few hours, a full day, or several days - and therefore what level of output you need from your PV array.
They are being discriminated against for good reason. Most people live on larger contiguous land masses and it's not reasonably possible to get a diesel car's emissions in the same range that you can get a gas or phev or hev into.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
It is rather sad that Dr Diesel's invention has become ubiquitous by running on the very thing it was not meant to be run on. He originally designed the engine to be used by farmers who could use what we now call bio-diesel ie veg oil run it not hydrocarbons
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
There are so many permutations. I would probably fall into the 60kWh per week category, which means I would only need about 2kw of panels to do the job in a day in the summer. In the winter, 6kw would be preferable. If I only want to charge 10kw per day, then 2kw of panels will probably suffice. None of this will be very cost effective, but it means I will be independent, which might be more important in a few years. I wonder how long before the government starts taxing solar panels?
https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/28/electric-cars-porsche-charging-network
It actually happens!
It actually happens!
That's a fair point. Someone probably had an article quota to meet.
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