Dovetails : Splitting the line?

[TrimTheKing]

Hi all

I have just been watching Rob Cosman's Hand Cut Dovetails DVD (which he makes look ridiculously easy by the way :shock: ) and was hoping to get a little clarity on what exactly 'splitting the line' means?

Here are my options:

- I would take it to mean that the centre of the saw blade sits in the centre of the marked line (hence 'splitting' the line)...

- ...but listening to what Rob says I get the impression that he is saying that the extreme of the saw kerf sits up against the waste side of the line (therefeore leaving the polished track, as David C refers to it) visible on the side of the DT.

- Option 3 is that I am completely wrong on both counts.... :wink:

Cheers

Mark

 

[Philly]

Mark
Rob is indeed an amazing craftsman! You really need to see him in person, mucho impressive!
When Rob "splits the line" he cuts away part of it. Yeah, easy. :wink:
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[woodbloke]

I always go for your option 2 but have been known more than once to be in the option 3 bracket :wink: :lol: - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

- ...but listening to what Rob says I get the impression that he is saying that the extreme of the saw kerf sits up against the waste side of the line (therefeore leaving the polished track, as David C refers to it) visible on the side of the DT.

Split the line with the saw i.e. leave some line but not all. This is actually pretty easy to do and I have managed it on every dovetail i've cut so far :^o




Ok, i occasionally manage it and it is damned hard!!

 

[newt]

Very difficult, practice,practice,practice, or make the line 3mm thick . I watched him at shows and he is a bit special, but he has cut a lot of dovetails.

 

[Philly]

Mark
Worth trying the Chris Schwarz "a dovetail a day" diet - cut one practise joint a night for a week. You will be amazed how much better you get - the last one will look almost as good as Cosmans :wink:
Hope this helps,
Philly

 

[Paul Chapman]

or make the line 3mm thick

So that's how he does it :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

if you cut through the line you'll easily leave a gap in your final result. I cut on the waste side (half a millimeter inside the waste area or so) and chisel down to a tight fit. Seems to work for me.

If I recall correctly Cosman doesn't pair the sides of the pins iwth a chisel, does he? That approach sounds doable/easier in softwood as the wood will spring a bit to fill the gap when glued, but in hardwoods, which is what I use mostly, I don't think you can afford to assume a good fit straight from the saw. I leave the tails as I saw them, and chisel the pins to fit.

I recently did David C's course, which was an absolute joy and very helpful. David seems to be more comfortable relying on the chisel to get the fit right, rather than to rely on his sawing technique only. Maybe it's a personal preference, but I feel the chisel leaves a better surface than the saw (well, my saw anyway).

The most important of all, I think, is to mark out properly. If your marking out isn't perfect, it will be difficult to get a good joint regardless of the approach you take (sawing vs chiseling).

cheers,

Vincent

 

[TrimTheKing]

Thanks all

I must admit that on the few I have tried I am much more comfortable with sawing just inside the line then paring down to it with the chisel. In the same way that you set the chisel in the the line to pare out the waste after the initial saw cut I like to mark both sides of the board and use the same technique to pare down to it.

Takes a bit longer but much easier, at least for me.

Watching Rob just made me think that I was missing something as he makes it looks sooooo easy. But as you have said, he has probably cut more CT's that I've had the proverbial hot dinners.

So in summary, I guess it's a case of whatever works best for me based on my skills, which are currently....erm......basic at best

Cheers

Mark

 

[TrimTheKing]

Mark
Rob is indeed an amazing craftsman! You really need to see him in person, mucho impressive!
When Rob "splits the line" he cuts away part of it. Yeah, easy. :wink:
Hope this helps
Philly

Cheers Philly

The problem I have with this, and it's been mentioned by others, is that the line is wafer thin so how do you cut 'part' of it????? :shock:

Mark

 

[Chris Knight]

See Konrad's thoughts on dovetails..

 

[SketchUp Guru]

So does all this mean that my method of just making sure the saw hits wood is all wrong? :lol:

 

[woodbloke]

parislondonparis wrote:

I don't think you can afford to assume a good fit straight from the saw.

I have never heard of this 'splitting the line' technique which do seem a bit strange :? to me. If you cut on the waste side, so that the saw teeth are just touching the line and then repeat for the other bit of the joint in the same way, it will go together by hitting with a block and hammer (the correct way to assemble drawer d/t's) but only ever half way and only once. Alternatively they can be pulled up with cramps which may be slightly kinder. However, this sort of technique only works if the marking out of the joint in the first place is as accurate as the cutting - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

I think the cutting on the first piece doesn't need to be that accurate (provided you cut straight) along a drawn line. In fact you wouldn't really need a line at all on the first piece (tails in my case). Whatever you cut on the first piece you'll have to transfer accurately to the second piece.

Indeed if you can saw with the teeth just, or barely touching the knifeline on teh secod piece it may go together with a light tap of the mallet, but I would be hesitant, particularly on thin hardwood stock, to drive the joint home by heave hammering, which to me just seems to say that it is a bit too tight.

Also, test fitting before glue-up is something that I, as an amateur, find useful and comforting. If the joint only goes together once, this would make me rather nervous. I guess that changes once you've cut hundreds of dovetails, but I am not yet at that stage.

 

[Paul Chapman]

See Konrad's thoughts on dovetails..

That was a great article by Konrad. I'm sure his approach of sticking at it until it comes right is the best one - bit like learning to ride a bike, once you've got it, you've got it . Thanks for posting the link, Chris :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

See Konrad's thoughts on dovetails..

That was a great article by Konrad. I'm sure his approach of sticking at it until it comes right is the best one - bit like learning to ride a bike, once you've got it, you've got it . Thanks for posting the link, Chris :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Interesting point that


I practice and became pretty handy (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/Joints/Houndstooth-Dovetails.html) with DTs (and cutting against the line) a while back and cut them quite regularly for years.

Not cut any for 18 months,but the other day thought I'd do a practice one as I will be cutting a LOT for a project soon, and the very first one was bang on!

Just like riding a bike.

 

[Anonymous]

those houndstooth dovetails look very neat.

 

[Paul Chapman]

the very first one was bang on!

Just like riding a bike.

\/ \/ :lol:

 

[RogerS]

But if you use a Japanese knife for marking out then isn't the line a bit thin to split? I know sounds a bit tongue in cheek but it's an honest question.

 

[andrewm]

Very difficult, practice,practice,practice, or make the line 3mm thick . I watched him at shows and he is a bit special, but he has cut a lot of dovetails.

Nah! Easy. I do it every time. I usually remove the first half of the line and leave the second half. If I am having an unusually cack-handed day I have been known to leave the first half and remove the second.

Andrew