Domino Jointers Are they really worth it, or just a gimic

[JobandKnock]

...one way of saving money is to de skill a trade, ie push fit plastic plumbing could be fitted by Gonzo and only takes a fraction of the time required compared to a skilled plumber using copper and a bender.

On the flip side of that, copper prices have continued to rise and construction has always been about reduction of cost - so we now have crimped composite (metal/plastic) pipework for water and heating (although large diameter heating pipes are often still done in iron and steel - push fit is unreliable and has disappeared from big projects) with solvent weld for plastic wastes. These technologies are faster and more reliable than older methods but it means that modern plumbers need deep pockets to buy the crimpers whilst they still need to be able to braze copper, etc. Perhaps it's just the small works part of the trade which is being deskilled?

 

[MikeJhn]

It has always been find a way to reduce cost's in construction, hence dot and dab plasterboard on walls, initially used only on ceilings nailed to joists, and the invention of T&E cable only used in the UK or its territories.

 

[Ian down london way]

off the top off my head the Festool shaper origin,

I have one of those. Amazing machine. However Origin was bought out by festools - Origin was a Kickstarter-type
Of development by a couple of very talented developers in USA. (The motor of the origin is festools).

 

[sploo]

Although it has to be said that the principles of cyclic separation have been in common use since before WWII and wasn't the cone one of Dyson's ideas?

Yep - cyclonic separation has been around for ages (used with deliberately turbulence-inducing internal protrusions to help split and separate wheat from chaff).

The Harvey Gyro is quite interesting though; in that it uses an initial stage (that doesn't induce spinning in the air) to separate the larger chips, then a second cyclonic stage to separate the finer material. Jet make a (possibly patent-avoiding) horizontal separator that just has the second stage; but from reports I've seen it tends to clog the fins a lot.

That said, if you could get hold of the Jet separator then I think the (missing) initial stage would be easier to DIY. From images I'd guess it's using the Coandă Effect to keep the air attached to a double cone (a bit like a smooth diamond shape), whilst the change in direction throws the larger chips outwards.

I don't know if the originators of the Harvey actually designed that two stage separation system, but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[NormanB]

Well said. A prime example is Apple. High quality (along with high price) all produced in China.

Such high quality the product has a life of 5 years tops (the non user changeable battery about half of that).

 

[danst96]

Such high quality the product has a life of 5 years tops (the non user changeable battery about half of that).

Built in such a high quality factory with such excellent working conditions that they have to put nets at each floor level on the central stair case to stop their workers jumping down.

 

[Doug B]

Such high quality the product has a life of 5 years tops (the non user changeable battery about half of that).

Shhhh don’t tell my iPad that I bought it in 2013 & my iPhone 4 before that, nobody must have told them they’re only supposed to last 5 years.

 

[NormanB]

Shhhh don’t tell my iPad that I bought it in 2013 & my iPhone 4 before that, nobody must have told them they’re only supposed to last 5 years.

I meant 5 years of use (not ownership).

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Such high quality the product has a life of 5 years tops (the non user changeable battery about half of that).

Really!!! You are thinking of the windows products.
I have an Mac mini that’s in use 24/7/365 that’s 12 years old, another that’s around 16 years old a couple of iPods that are about 12 years old an iPad that’s 10 years old and a MacBook Pro that 12 years old. Those are a small selection all are still functional. Also that doesn’t include the airports and airport express WiFi base stations also in use 24/7/365

 

[Doug B]

I meant 5 years of use (not ownership).

But they’ve been used everyday since I got them

 

[MikeK]

I meant 5 years of use (not ownership).

My wife's iPhone 4s, bought new in November 2011, was retired last month for a new iPhone 12 after nearly nine and a half years of continuous service. The only reason we are replacing it is because the 4s is no longer supported with updates and Telekom gave us a great deal on a new phone. However, the 4s still works perfectly and has never had a battery change. The MacBook Pro I'm using to type this reply is a mid-2009 version that I bought new in August 2009 has been in continuous service on the same battery.

The only Windows computer I have is an HP laptop that I bought two years ago to run a software package that is not available for the Mac. It is on its second battery.

 

[TheTiddles]

Ah the old cliche, people complaining about mass-produced Chinese made products… using mass-produced Chinese made products to do so.

The irony is as lost to them as the phenomenal quality of the engineering that sits in their hands.

 

[ivan]

A clip from FineWoodworking #203, biscuits not so weedy after all?

 

[JobandKnock]

Built in such a high quality factory with such excellent working conditions that they have to put nets at each floor level on the central stair case to stop their workers jumping down.

Jumping down or committing suicide?

 

[sploo]

Jumping down or committing suicide?

Suicide. There have been quite a few unpleasant stories about workers in Chinese plants jumping off buildings (Foxconn having come up a few times). You get the usual "terrible, awful, will look into it, demand good conditions" type press releases from the western companies whose products they're making, then it goes back to normal once people are looking the other way.

I'm typing this on a phone likely made in China, so I'll concede the hypocrisy of being on a high horse...

 

[dzj]

A clip from FineWoodworking #203, biscuits not so weedy after all?

Interesting that a half lap would fare better than a bridle joint. The latter having double the glue surfaces of the half lap.

 

[Doug B]

Interesting that a half lap would fare better than a bridle joint. The latter having double the glue surfaces of the half lap.

To be honest I take all those sorts of tables with a pinch of salt, I read one we’re dowels were “proved“ to be stronger than dominos but in truth the lateral surface glue area of both fixings tested was directly proportional to the results, they just used more dowels with a greater lateral glue area in the test joint.

 

[ivan]

The table was clipped from a long article which carried full details of all the joints. They were all at 90 deg making an L shape which was racked under a press.
The main mode of failure was through a split in the piece carrying the mortice, which commenced at the outside of the joint, and tended to come at the end of the "tenon"/biscuit. The authors were surprised at the winners, especially the splined mitre, which was in no way unusually constructed. The thin tenon, and the bridle joint failed when the "tenon" snapped under tension at the shoulder, the glue mainly still holding. The Domino lost out as the domino tenon used was a bit short for the 50mm wide timber whilst the loose tenon was in a max depth pair of mortices.

They also pointed out that the results may well be different after a few years of (moisture) movement, or indeed exposure to the elements

 

[Spectric]

I read one we’re dowels were “proved“ to be stronger than dominos but in truth the lateral surface glue area of both fixings tested was directly proportional to the results, they just used more dowels with a greater lateral glue area in the test joint.

It is very easy to place two rows of 10mm dowels with precision using a dowelmax jig, it is not so easy to place multiple dominos without using the sloppy setting so it is not suprising that the dowel joints come out stronger. If you could place the Domino's as easy then they would be stronger, as yet I have got some ideas using the FCC tools alignment jig and spacers on the plate but not 100% yet. The placing using the dowelmax is just easy but slow.

 

[pe2dave]

Doesn't take long before a thread drifts off topic.