Disability Badges

[RogerS]

Thank you for the advise!

Roy.

No worries.

Maybe you'll show us where I said I parked in such bays. All I posted are the facts as they are. The shopping centre disabled bays hold the same standing as parent and child bays, which I do use. But I guess you'll pay I have an attitude for using them.

Gary..not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse to try and provoke a response. So.....humour us...please can you say which of the situations below apply to you:

1) I have a valid disability sticker and park in shopping centre disabled bays
2) I do not have a valid disability sticker but still park in shopping centre disabled bays
3) I have children and when they are with me I park in shopping centre parent and child bays
4) I do not have children with me but still park in shopping centre parent and child bays

 

[studders]

I'm a bit of a rebel when it comes to where I'll chain my bike up.

 

[RogerS]

I'm a bit of a rebel when it comes to where I'll chain my bike up.

I know what you mean, Studders

 

[MickCheese]

Gary

Earlier today I did a search of your past posts. I noticed you have been a member here for many years yet I didn't recognise your name as one who tried to offend. I just wondered if this was a recent thing.

I didn't find anything that suggested to me you were an antagonist but I have found a few of your recent postings rude, bordering on obnoxious it seems to me for no reason other then to provoke a response.

I started to post a response myself but thought I just don't need the agro so I just pressed the back button.

I have now re-read some of the things you have responded to and now have you down as a 'keyboard warrior', merely posting for the sake of it, you have had, as far as I am concerned, had nothing useful to say. Maybe I have not either but I would hope no one has found me rude.

When my children were small the child & parent spaces at the car parks were most useful. It allows you to get a small child from the car, keep hold of them and not smash the open door into the car next to you, it also allows you to avoid trying to control children in a confined car park and minimise the danger of them running off and maybe getting hurt. So I begrudgingly support child & parent bays now my children have grown up even though there seem to be far too many of them.

My mother has recently had a hip replaced and therefore has difficulty walking so has a disabled parking badge, it is most useful and in fact is the only way she can go shopping, visit the hospital / doctors or get to the opticians.

So, are you saying you use those bays? Do you only use them when you have children in the car? Are you a disabled badge holder?

But my question really is, why do I read your posts and think you are being so antagonistic?

Mick

 

[studders]

I'm a bit of a rebel when it comes to where I'll chain my bike up.

I know what you mean, Studders

Really must get around to changing that saddle, it does chafe somewhat.

 

[DIY Stew]

So if you get a parking ticket in a private car park you dont need to pay it?

So if I turn up at my local Asda and find there are no disabled parking spaces left and I see a car parked in a disabled space without showing a disabled parking disc, I can park in such a way as to block that vehicle in and if I get a ticket for not parking in a marked space I can just throw it away because Asda car park is private.

Please someone tell me I'm correct, it would make my day to do this because some lazy lowlife doesn't like to walk no more than 40 metres.

Stew

 

[Digit]

Or like the 'Big Man' do what many would like to do and find that you're nicked and scroat gets damages for his hurt feelings!

Roy.

 

[Gary]

So if you get a parking ticket in a private car park you dont need to pay it?

So if I turn up at my local Asda and find there are no disabled parking spaces left and I see a car parked in a disabled space without showing a disabled parking disc, I can park in such a way as to block that vehicle in and if I get a ticket for not parking in a marked space I can just throw it away because Asda car park is private.

Please someone tell me I'm correct, it would make my day to do this because some lazy lowlife doesn't like to walk no more than 40 metres.

Stew

Yes, you're correct.

 

[RogerS]

So if you get a parking ticket in a private car park you dont need to pay it?

So if I turn up at my local Asda and find there are no disabled parking spaces left and I see a car parked in a disabled space without showing a disabled parking disc, I can park in such a way as to block that vehicle in and if I get a ticket for not parking in a marked space I can just throw it away because Asda car park is private.

Please someone tell me I'm correct, it would make my day to do this because some lazy lowlife doesn't like to walk no more than 40 metres.

Stew

Yes, you're correct.

So come on, Gary. Are you going to answer the question I posed to you a few posts back?

 

[Jake]

You don't have a badge and They invoice you for £120. You don't have to pay it as they can't legally enforce it.

I don't actually plan on parking in the shopping car park's disabled bays - even if I were that shameless, there's an office car park I can leave my car in which is surprisingly actually closer to the office!

But as it goes, my understanding of the matter is that this isn't the case at all. It's private land, and the public has no right to be there, with or without their car; they are admitting the individual on the condition that the individual agrees with their terms, and their terms state that if the individuaal leaves their car in the wrong place or for too long, they're liable for a penalty of £120. It's a contractual matter rather than a civil parking infringement, but if you brought your car onto the public land, the argument goes, you agreed to the contract. They have put the signs up very clearly at all entrances and throughout the car park, and the terms aren't really unreasonable; simply that you don't leave your car there more than 2 hours and don't park in the disabled bays without a badge, so from my (admittedly limited, I'm no lawyer) understanding, I don't see anything in particular which could render the contract void.

Or would you argue that there's no legal need to buy a ticket in pay-and-display car parks, or nothing wrong with not paying in a ticket-entry car park and demanding that they release your car which they have no right to trap behind mechanical barriers?

Exactly its private land, the contract as you put it cannot be enforced. The only parking tickets you legally have to pay are those issued by the council or the police.

It's a contract and it can be enforced through the civil courts, although whether the full amount would be allowed *might* be a different question.

The legal issue is about the amount of the charge, and whether it reflects the damage suffered by breach of the contract, technically known as whether the amount is a "penalty" (not allowed) or is a genuine pre-estimate of loss (allowed). Personally and without any research, I doubt £100 or £150 would be a penalty. The company on whose land you are parking is allowed to police the terms on which you park on it, and breaches are going to cost it staff time and money and maybe third party tow costs etc.

Exorbitant charges are a different matter, but I (as I say, without doing any research) doubt that a court would think that they are exorbitant if they are around the public highways equivalent.

On the other hand, is it worth a company pursuing you for £100-£150? That is where you have a very weaselly point. In pure economic terms, there are no costs awards in the small claims court, so it would cost them more to sue than they would get in damages for the breach of contract. But they have every right to sue on a point of principle if they wish.

A lot of people might wish them well in that for some of the more selfish examples which have been cited in this thread.

 

[studders]

I recall, many Moons ago now, when I worked for Safeways on the night shift. Their car park was used by the customers of the local Pub and they made it very difficult, time consuming and very annoying when it came time for the, very big, lorries to deliver.
There was a sign to the effect that the carpark would be locked at 9PM, though it never usually was. One night we did lock it, still full of cars from the Pub.
We had people banging on the doors demanding that we open the gates, we didn't and there was bugga all they could do about it.
Some even tried the Police, who weren't the slightest bit interested.
Oh what fun.....

 

[Digit]

Many laws/rules are introduced retrospectively, to deal with the actions of people who place their own interests over and above the rest, Gary may well be correct that no action would be taken in the circumstances that he describes, but no action would be needed either with a little consideration.

Roy.

 

[JakeS]

It's a contract and it can be enforced through the civil courts, although whether the full amount would be allowed *might* be a different question.

The legal issue is about the amount of the charge, and whether it reflects the damage suffered by breach of the contract, technically known as whether the amount is a "penalty" (not allowed) or is a genuine pre-estimate of loss (allowed). Personally and without any research, I doubt £100 or £150 would be a penalty.

This was more or less my understanding, too - the criteria from how it was explained to me were that a) the charge was a relatively realistic assessment of losses (punitive charges aren't allowed, but charges as assessments of maximum realistic losses are) and b) it was reasonable to pre-determine an estimate rather than determining post-factum what the actual losses had been. It seems to me that it's plausible to believe that both criteria would be considered to be met in this case, since it's not realistically possible for a supermarket to know whether anyone had been unable to shop that day because there weren't any free disabled spaces, and how much they may have spent. They might have lost nothing, but old Grandma Smith might have chosen that day to go and buy a new plasma TV!


The nearest I've seen any of the 'get out of your parking ticket' sites explain their parking-charges-are-illegal fantasy was to simply dismiss all charges levied as damages in contracts, on the grounds that just because there are some circumstances under which monetary damages aren't legal, that must mean that all instances of monetary damages must be illegal. So far as I can see they mostly just make it as difficult as possible for the parking people - essentially acting in bad faith - and consider it proof of their legal standing when the parking people give up.


Also: Digit: Amen to that!