Customers from ****!!!

[Anonymous]

This is one for all the pros out there.

Last year I got a call from a potential client about a kitchen. I dutifully went round to see him and his wife, to find a very nicely made but half finished kitchen in their new extension. The story went that the cabinet maker they had commissioned to build the kitchen had suffered a marital breakdown and mental collapse, resulting in him leaving them in the lurch.

Stupidly taking this story at face value, and not recognising the name of my predecessor, I agreed to take on the job of finishing off the kitchen, building a dresser and island, and fitting out the utility room.

Big mistake...

The next two months were a total nightmare - changes of design, ridiculously finickerty complaints, phone calls and texts at all times of day and night, hoop jumping to get a cheque, full days work without the single offer of a brew, etc, etc.

I eventually got finished, got paid, and got the **** out of there!

Anyway,

This week I ran into the guy who walked off the job in the first place. We had a fine old chat, and needless to say his story was slightly different to theirs!

The bit about the mental collapse was true - but it was caused by them!!

They had kept this poor bloke on the run for 9 months, and he had lost around 4 grand before he just packed his bags and walked away. I can't say I blame him!

The worrying thing is though, I am currently coming to the end of another big job that I inherited from another company. Word is that they, too, walked off the job due to the client being a total pain in the buttocks. They are proving to be exactly that to me.

So, has anyone else got cautionary tales of Customers from ****? What signs should be looked for at the time of quotation?

Would it not be a great idea to have a register of these people so that that tradesmen could vet potential clients before taking on work? :lol:

Cheers
Brad

 

[Roger]

Deposits Brad - and BIGGER deposits in direct relation to the degree of uncertainty you feel. Easily justified as you are taking on someone else's unknown work!

Rigid Terms in that ANY change of design - material - time etc. / necessitates a change of Terms and Payment. I've only had to use it twice, but it works .....

 

[Anonymous]

I've been fairly lucky so far, however I did have one potential client who had difficulty understanding the drawings (2d rather than 3d), after much explaination and more detailed drawings, she told me to go ahead with it and if she didn't like it once it was made she just wouldn't pay me for it.

Needless to say I didn't bother making it.

A customer complained that one of her kitchen doors had fallen off. When I told her a door on butts could not just fall off, she replied that she had been standing on the edge of it using it as a ladder. :shock:

One of the interior designers we do work for has just been threatened with having his legs broken if he pursues for the final payment. Some nice folks out there.

 

[Roger]

he had been standing on the edge of it using it as a ladder

I like that one ....... :roll:

One of the interior designers we do work for has just been threatened with having his legs broken if he pursues for the final payment

My type of friendly Customer !

 

[Slim]

Funny you should mention customers from ****.

I am a landscaper by trade. I received a phonecall today from a customer I had real problems with in the past. She was complaining that the patio I laid for her back in May has moss growing on it. :shock: and what was I going to do about it!

When I was doing the job for this customer, she changed the plans so many times that it took me almost 2 weeks longer than I had estimated for. When she received the bill, which was obviously 2 weeks more expensive, she just flat out refused to pay me. I ended up having to take her to court to get what I was owed. A strangly satisfying experience actually.

There are just some people out there who think that not paying us hardworking tradespeople won't affect us. As it happens the delay in being paid from that customer did put a big hole in my finaces, and forced me to put back the purchase of my jointer :x

 

[woodbloke]

In early editions of F&C the then editor Paul Richardson took great pains to recommend an initial, non-returnable, deposit of 50% to cover the cost of materials, new tooling etc and also in case the customer got a bit stroppy.
I know of a case where my old boss didn't do this, had a row with a client and it cost him £20,000....came back from London after visiting same a very,very unhappy chappy - Rob

 

[Roger]

'Face & Edge' - a series of some of the best and most down to earth advice you can get, for established as well as start up business.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually it should be retitled "Interior designers from ****" for me.

They constantly draw things which just cannot be made, ie if the work top is 600 deep they want 600mm drawers under them and then don't get it when you explain about needing a carcase, scribe and drawer front and back. etc

 

[engineer one]

basic rule must be get a deposit that will cover your start up costs,
and also the whole of the material costs, PLUS something for your profit so that if you go more than halfway you are still not working for nothing.

so at least 50% of labour plus whole of material.

but the other thing is a WRITTEN contract with clauses about extras.

most of the time people who puppy about the price did not have the money to pay for it in the first place.

cause, you could always do the old mechanics trick of a rotten fish,
or dead rat in strange places :lol: :twisted:
paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I agree entirely with the point about deposits.

On small jobs I get a deposit of 50% with order with the balance on completion.

On larger projects I ask for a deposit of 25%, a stage payment of 25% when I am ready to actually start work, 25% on delivery, and 25% on completion.

While this goes a long way to protecting you financially and allow your family to eat while you are in the middle of a 6 week job, the 'Customer from ****' will start adding things and changing their minds during the latter stages.

'Don't like the cornices' is the comment I got yesterday after painstakingly fitted the agreed cornices to a kitchen. I thought they looked great!

So, I'll have to take them off, source new ones, spray them up, and spend another day fitting them. (Ther are some very odd compound angles on this kitchen!)

Sure, I'll charge them for it, and I'll get the money; the trouble is that it's another weeks deley before I get my final payment - in this case over £3000.

It also delays my next job, and every job after that...

I am realising that most of the problems with this kind of customer centre on the fitting operation. I have always offered the full supply and fit package but am wondering about changing tack. An old college friend of mine in South London makes a nice living making bespoke kitchens - but he never fits a thing. He just delivers a van load of cabinets, picks up his cheque, and arranges for an independent fitter to do the rest, whom the client pays directly.

This is also the way that most high street kitchen shops work - does it save on problems? After all, while I'm not out fitting Client A's kitchen, I could be making Client B's bedroom in my nice cosy workshop.

Customers eh?

Who needs 'em?!

Cheers
Brad

Paul - This lot might very well be getting the 'bag of prawns down the radiator' treatment! :lol:

Or inside a curtain rail... they'd never find that! :-k

 

[MikeW]

I empathize, Brad.

The only times I had problems was early on when things were not spelled out well in a contract. I never did get ripped off, but there were a couple customers which caused me to get very tense over the situation.

So after those couple experiences [they weren't the first two nor consequetive customers] I adopted a 50% deposit, 25% progress billing and final on delivery.

After a time, I had weeded out most "poor" customers just because of what I charged. Most paid upfront and in full--their choice. Only two customers in 4 years were unhappy. Once was my fault, the other was a picky woman who didn't realize that the samples of brown Oak I showed her with finish on them was actually the color the pieces were going to be...That could probably be chalked up as my fault too.

Also--on jobs which had multiple aspects like stairs, trim, built-ins and stand alone furniture, I always broke it into separate contracts and got fully paid per aspect before going on to the next. I lost a few jobs because of that. But at least I ate well on the work I did get.

Take care, Mike

 

[DomValente]

Or the client who asked if we could put the bookcase in the garage on a Thursday because they would be at work and could we collect our money on the Saturday please.
Well we returned on the Saturday, they had moved to Spain.

The usual favourite are clients who ask for drawings and a sample of the finishes. These are then used to show other tradesmen. Always get part of deposit for your drawings.

 

[Anonymous]

All this talk about deposits is fine and I agree with most of it, however it depends on your customer.

If you have faith in a known customer sometimes you just have to take a chance.

I have a large developer as a client who can get terms with all the large companies and expects me to do the same. The jobs are too good to turn down, I have a track record with him, so he gets 30 days to pay me at the end of the job.

I have a job at the end of the year where I will need to take a large overdraft whilst I wait for payment, but hopefully its going to be a fantastic job 8)

However we have another client who doesn't get any furniture until his cheque has cleared.

50% of labour and all materials up front is too much in my opinion, I wouldn't personnally pay someone else that much, in case they are rubbish. Remember the client is putting faith in you, that you can produce the goods and quality, you say you can. Big deposits put clients off, staged payments work well.

 

[Losos]

Dom.

"They had moved to Spain" ............................What do some people think life is about? How do they sleep at night? :evil:

What a shame you didn't have to drive by on the Friday, you sure could've given them a nice surprise :wink:

 

[johnnyb]

i well remember advertising in a local rag breifly and every phone call was this scenario!!!!! tradesman has left me in the lurch can you help. person that worked for us before was very abusive... etc etc every job was a nightmare of finickiness or poor payment or something. the moral dont advertise in local rags. legit people get trades by recommendation.

 

[Nick W]

And its not just customers.

In my very early days I bought some glossy space in a magazine being put togther for one of the local estate agents. It was paid for in stages with the final installment due before they were to be shoved through n thousand local letterboxes.

The mags were eventually found dumped, and the company responsible disappeared. I just can't understand why they even bothered to print the things if they were going to do a flyer like that. I couldn't get a refund from the estate agents because they weren't the ones on the contract. :evil:

Actually, apart from Yellow Pages (and now the phone book), none of the advertising I have placed has generated any leads, let alone business, and I now don't bother. All of my work now comes through repeat business, word of mouth, the phone books or the web. But that may have to change as it's gone a bit too quiet of late.

Err, has anyone got any good advertising ideas that work?

 

[Anonymous]

My wife (i married her for her money :lol: ) brought home the Aston Martin booklet from cambridge. Some nice adverts in there, don't you think Nick. :lol:

 

[Nick W]

Next time you're in there browsing, do drop round for a brew.

Actually that ad. did get me one enquiry


















for repairs to an antique chair. :evil:

 

[Scrit]

I well remember advertising in a local rag briefly and every phone call was this scenario!!!!! Tradesman has left me in the lurch can you help. Person that worked for us before was very abusive... etc etc every job was a nightmare of finickiness or poor payment or something. The moral - don't advertise in local rags. Legit people get trades by recommendation.

But you've got to start somewhere, haven't you? Sticking a line in Yellow Pages or Thompsons isn't always a lot of good, either, as Nick says (I've had 5 enquiries in about ten years worth of advertising there). And until you get a number of jobs under your belt it's often just a case of grit your teeth, be polite, firm and take no cr*p.

We've all had our share of customers from ****, one of my pet peaves being the customer who keeps adding to the list and insisting that the new stuff be started before completing the stuff you've already started on (but who naturally won't pay until the job is completed) - that one can be hard to resist without upsetting the customer, but you just have to stand firm. After having this trick played on me a couple of times, especially by certain types of restaurant, I'll now turn-down "extension" work like this until the task at hand is complete - that way I've still got some cash flow. But if you think it's bad as a tradesman/craftsman it's actually potentially much worse if you are supplying as a sub-contractor. There you may have to wait from 90 to 120 days from the end of the month in which the work was delivered to get paid (and local authoritiess aren't the worst as they tend to pay in about 60 to 75 days - and at least you can guarantee getting paid), there's often no deposit with order and your sole way to check the creditworthyness of the customer is a Dunn & Bradstreet credit check. From bitter and expensive personal experience I can tell you they don't always give you the true picture.

Most of the time people who puppy about the price did not have the money to pay for it in the first place.

Yes, but it still doesn't make you feel any better about things when you are called in to sort-out the abortion the builder has installed after your own quote was rejected out of hand as too expensive. :evil:

I think I agree with Senior about deposits, though. At the ned of the day business is partly about risk, so I think that asking for a deposit which covers 1/3 of the end price (or the cost of materials + trade mark-up) and then stage payments is probably an equitable way to approach potential sales.

It's a hard life :roll:

Scrit

 

[promhandicam]

All the talk of prawns in radiators and dead rats reminds me of a friend I worked with who got messed around so much on one job that a carton of milk was inadvertently left in a stud wall at the end of the job. It was one of the last things to be done - blocking off a doorway IIRC and the cheque had cleared before the milk started to make its presence known. Very naughty but somehow satisfying in extreme circumstances. This was the same guy who in his final bill on another job put in £50 for stroking the cat every day - and he got it - the customer thought it was great! Thank goodness not all customers are bad.

Steve