CS & Guide or Table Saw?

[LyNx]

Byron, if your going down the festool route, i won't purchase the joining pieces and another guide rail to cut longer lengths. Buy the single longer guide itself (ie 2400mm or 2700mm).

You just don't get a true straight cut with joining two guide rails together. Because of this i may be selling a nearly new 1400mm guide rail

 

[RogerS]

Byron, if your going down the festool route, i won't purchase the joining pieces and another guide rail to cut longer lengths. Buy the single longer guide itself (ie 2400mm or 2700mm).

You just don't get a true straight cut with joining two guide rails together. Because of this i may be selling a nearly new 1400mm guide rail

Mmmm...what sort of inaccuracy were you getting, Andy? I regularly use the two joined up and have not, as yet, noticed any problem.

Have you tried cutting a 600 mm shelf with a 2.7m long rail ?? :x Much easier with a 1400mm....in an ideal world I'd also have a wee stubbie at about 600m for trimming off stuff onsite.

 

[LyNx]

i know what you mean about the rails but i find i'm ripping alot of sheets down and i'm getting a couple of mill difference. this isn't too bad but if it's full height doors, that gap can creap from 3mm top and bottom to 5mm in the middle.

I may be due to the speed i work and not checking to the rails often even. i ideally want a 2700mm, with the 1400mm that came with the saw and a stumpy like you mentioned.

 

[johnelliott]

sorry steve, sure you are right, but what i should have said is that
you have to hold it down at that depth, or at least that was what
i had thought i was told.

As Steve has said it does indeed need to be held down once plunged. I use a Festool saw and guide rail extensively in all sorts of situations and have never wanted a plunge lock for it, I'm surprised that the Mafell has one, I can't imagine why

John

 

[Scrit]

I use a Festool saw and guide rail extensively in all sorts of situations and have never wanted a plunge lock for it, I'm surprised that the Mafell has one, I can't imagine why

I have a Bosch rail system and plunge saw (the GKS86B) and that has a plunge lock, too. When you are sawing flooring sheets in situ with a 12 foot drop one side of where you are working it is useful to have one less thing to be concerned about!

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

i guess it depends upon what you use it for, but i would guess when using a rail there are points as you travel along say a 2700 when you need to change your stance, and you might then find the blade raising and not cutting the back cleanly.

i know that all these things demand practice and am sure that with
practice you get used to it.

i have found with the mafell plunge lock i can use less depth and get a clean cut at the bottom with minimal break out, and also you could use
it for cutting slots or grooves. if all you are doing is cutting through
the wood then you do not need the lock, but if you cut in the middle of the
wood, or do other things then the lock is valuable.

i don't know about festo, but i can start a cut halfway along the
rail in the middle of the wood, by plunging and locking, or by setting the
depth and then dropping the whole blade into the space. sometimes
it is better than using a jigsaw, and the cut is cleaner.

anyway they are both decent saws with good design values.

paul :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

As an update to this thread, I emailed Dino this morning about purchasing some kit from him, and pricing with postage costs, here's his reply:

Quote: "Total ez damage sgs-1 $ 179.00 srk $99.00 Limit stops $45.00 and cabinetmaket $130.00
Shipping for all the above is $150.00 (two boxes) one 16 lbs nad the other 12.00
Grand total $603.00" End quote

Which equates to: £315.89 (Without Circular Saw) or Import Duty!
Festool = £380 all in with delivery.

Granted, there are extra bits with the EZ for instance the SRK and the square/repeater. But I can't see it being too difficult to replicate these jigs to a fashion for the festool system. Also, I don't have to worry too much about dust extraction and which saw to get for it - inreasing the cost further.

One of the other reasons why i'm going ahead with the festool is, i'll get the festool by the weekend, whereas the EZ can take up to a week assuming it makes the journey safely - i've had a few items from the states get totally destroyed by the careful hands of the delivery guy's.

 

[cumbrian]

I've read this thread with a lot of interest as I've been pondering the question for some time. I'm new into the woodworking game, and as yet don't have the space to set myself up, so I've not been in any hurry to buy either TS or rail system. A lot of the advice I've read on the forum has steered me towards a rail system for sheet goods, so I've had a look at the info on Festool and EZ.
As far as I can work out (and please set me straight if I'm missing something obvious), the EZ scores on the ease of repeat cuts (claimed - anyone tried?), flexibility on choice of saw, and the facility to use any router with the system - unless I've misunderstood, you can only use the Festool router with their rail system? Oh, and maybe (?) price.
So on features (and only on paper) the EZ seems to win. The big BUT has been having to buy blind, and availability. Okay, it's not difficult to get something sent from the States, but the final price can be a bit of a lottery depending on whether HCM&E decide to sting you for import duty and VAT, or if they're having a "let's just pass it through and go home" moment.
I didn't get any response from the previous importer, hence I'm very interested to hear that PeWe is setting up. Maybe I can then work out what I need to order (the EZ website leaves me a bit confused at times....); I'm also interested to hear any further experiences from those who've successfully bought one from the States, and how well the system works for them.

Or should I just get the Festool.........? I may never want to use my router with the rails anyway........Ho hum.

Confused of Cumbria

 

[RogerS]

unless I've misunderstood, you can only use the Festool router with their rail system?

Confused of Cumbria

Dear Confused of Cumbria :lol:

You can fit other routers. For example the DW625 and 621...as the spacing of their mitre fence rods is the same as the festool. All you need is a Festool adaptor plate.

From TS55lover of Malvern :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

HI Cumbrian,

I've just gone thought the same decision making process as you have, and can say it's difficult to decide between the two.

What makes the EZ an attractive proposition to me is the repeatibility, but when you look at it, it's just a piece of aluminium with a ruler on it at 90 degrees to the rail - wouldn't be too difficult to make one yourself for the festool.

Also, with festool you get a 3 year warrenty, excellent backup and support, and not too mention a complete system that is designed with all the tools in mind - check out the MFT (Mulit-functional table) to see how good the system can be.

Once you add the cost of a good saw (which probably won't be as good as the TS55 anyway) plus delivery and inport duty etc, your not too far away from the cost of the Festool system, when looking at it like that, it became an EZ choice for me that the festool was the way to go

And with an adaptor for the Festool rail, you can use any router. They also do an adaptor for Jigsaws.

 

[LyNx]

What makes the EZ an attractive proposition to me is the repeatibility, but when you look at it, it's just a piece of aluminium with a ruler on it at 90 degrees to the rail - wouldn't be too difficult to make one yourself for the festool.

I made this kind of thing at the weekend. Took a few hours to set-up but once done i was cutting with speed and very accurate results. I'll post a few photos once home to explain the setup.

 

[ByronBlack]

Hi Lynx,

I would be very interested to see your photo's and notes on that, as i'm currently running the idea through my head to think of the best approach!

I assume you used it on a festool system?

 

[LyNx]

it was the festool system.

I would try and explain but you really need to see the photos. I current idea will only suit 18mm MDF but i'm planning on having it sliding vertically so you can adjust to suit different thicknesses.

I did a test cut to see if all square, by the rotating sheets method and was 0.33mm out. You then divide by 4 (4 sides) and this then gives you the amount it's out (is this correct). So on an 650mm panel, i'm 0.0825 out - and i don't think thats too bad. I could get this better but it's all removable so it'll do for time being.

 

[Alf]

Gents, if you're going to use the "but I can easily make one of those" argument in favour of the one system or another, can I also point out you can make the whole guide rail system... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[ByronBlack]

Alf

Thats simply not true, unless you have access to a CNC aluminium milling machine to create an accurate track. Tten you need to make a zero-clearance base and base to run on said track.

Yes you can make a straight edge, but thats only a small part of a track system, for instance, the edge of the track guide is where the cut is made, not with a straight edge where you have to cater for the offset, also the saw runs against the straight edge as opposed to along the top.

I appreciate your argument, but its not valid, as making something similar to a repeater arm is quite an easy thing to do and will replicate the workings of the original very closely without too much engineering.

 

[Alf]

Right, it's simply not true. Just hope I forget that next time I use my homemade guides or they might not work any more. :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[ByronBlack]

Alf, would you care then to show us some photo's and an explanation of your guide rail system and how it works, as i'm sure it would be good for us to see how a home-made system can compare to a commercial one.

 

[Alf]

Byron, I wouldn't want to disappoint you. They're not aluminium and I actually have to concentrate ever so slightly on keeping the saw against the edge. But they do work.

Cheers, Alf

 

[ByronBlack]

Alf

I didn't want to offend you about your guide rail, but I was just making the point that there is a big difference in making a jig to make repeat cuts, and making an equivalent guide rail to the EZ & Festool.

I too used to use a home-made one, and thats one of the reasons why i've saved my copper pennies to afford a decent system, there is no comparison to a well engineered, minimal breakout - cut it where you set it, mulit-functional guide.

And for someone like me, and others who will be using a fair amount of sheet material it's more practical to use a commercially made system, as it's quicker, safer and more accurate. I've lost count of the times I've sworn at the cat after my guide has slipped or I didn't measure the offset to the blade properly - you don't have to worry about those things with a commercial guide rail.

But, at the end of the day, each to their own

 

[paulm]

Yes you can make a straight edge, but thats only a small part of a track system, for instance, the edge of the track guide is where the cut is made, not with a straight edge where you have to cater for the offset, also the saw runs against the straight edge as opposed to along the top.

Just to add something else into the mix, which may not appeal to yourself BB but might be of interest to others, you can easily avoid the offset problem on a homemade jig.

Use your length of mdf or ply or whatever as a long baseboard, say 12" wide, and on top of this and to one side glue and/or screw a narrower, say 3 or 4" straight edged strip.

Before first use run your circular saw on top of the baseboard and held against the narrow straightedge piece. This then cuts the baseboard to exactly the edge of the saw blade of course.

Thereafter just align the cut edge of the baseboard on your cutting marks, clamp securely and away you go. Easily accurate enough for most purposes, the only restriction being able to get the initial straight edge !

Easy enough to make shorter versions also of course.

Cheers, Paul.